I'm reading this with interest.  We had the same question about the S-STEM program a couple of weeks ago.  Our rate is a short form MTDC rate but not MTDC as defined in A-21.  Our MTDC is TDC less equipment and subs in excess of $25K.  No exclusion of tuition or participant support costs.  With S-STEM, most of the money goes to scholarship/tuition for students (in section F) but indirect is added to a capped total direct cost amount.  Our rate is 50%, so had we applied our rate to the student tuition, we would have submitted a budget far larger than other institutions that have an A-21 defined rate that excludes participant support and tuition.  One third of our budget would have gone to indirect; I just can't see that that is the intent of NSF based on past practices. I did call the program officer to ask for clarification, but he said he could only give technical, not administrative, advice.  By then, we were close to deadline, so we excluded the student tuition when we calculated the IDC request.  Yes, we definitely need some further clarification from NSF for those of us who don't have the standard MTDC base, not just on REU but on all student support programs that have the new rules.

Barbara

Barbara H. Gray
Director of Sponsored Programs & Research Administration
IRB and IACUC Administrator
Valdosta State University

Email:  xxxxxx@valdosta.edu
Telephone:  229-333-7837
URL:  www.valdosta.edu/ospra

-----Original Message-----
From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] On Behalf Of xxxxxx@mcdaniel.edu
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:39 PM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation

I'm not sure about other schools, but at our school you can not receive a summer stipend payment (as would be received through an REU), AND academic credit. It's one or the other. Honestly  we call it a "stipend", but it's really just a payment like any other campus summer job.

Perhaps a little off topic. Sorry.

Robin

On 8/29/12 11:30 AM, "Young, Katherine S" <xxxxxx@ILSTU.EDU> wrote:

>Ok...the pivotal point may be stipend  = scholarship or fellowship.
>BUT, you may be able to charge F&A if  participant support costs are
>for a teacher stipend or a workshop participant (that is not for
>academic credit purpose) and where other costs included may be travel
>and food costs.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Research Administration List
>[mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] On Behalf Of Hawk, Patricia
>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:58 AM
>To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation
>
>Going on the paraphrase of Jean Feldman's remarks, I would say this:
>if your F&A rate is on salaries and wages, then it's not excluded.  If
>your F&A rate is on MTDC, stipends are one of the exclusions.
>
>REU awards do often carry expenses such as travel and supplies, so that
>would be the part that would traditionally covered under an MTDC rate.
>
>Pat
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Research Administration List
>[mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] On Behalf Of Young,
>Katherine S
>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 6:20 AM
>To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation
>
>The PAPP are general guidelines but when there are specific
>programmatic guidelines, they prevail, e.g.  International Programs
>exclude F&A on foreign travel, but you do not generally exclude it
>under a standard program.
>
>Kathy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Research Administration List
>[mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] On Behalf Of Laura Letbetter
>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 8:05 AM
>To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation
>
>Yes, the new REU guidelines say to use your rate, but the PAPP says
>participant support is excluded from indirect costs. Many NSF
>solicitations say "Indirect Cost (F&A) Limitations: Not Applicable,"
>but that doesn't mean you can collect indirects on participant support.
>Did Jean Feldman specifically say that the PAPP guidance on indirects
>does not apply to the REU solicitation?
>
>
>Laura Letbetter
>Director, Proposal Development
>Office of Research
>Kennesaw State University, 1000 Chastain Road, MD 0111 Kennesaw Hall,
>Room 3419 (deliveries), Kennesaw, GA 30144-5591
>Direct: 770.499.3365 | Main line: 770-423-6738 |Fax: 770-499-3620
>xxxxxx@kennesaw.edu |www.kennesaw.edu/ogc
>
>This email, and any attachments, is intended only for use by the
>addressee(s) named herein and may contain privileged and/or
>confidential information.  If you are not the intended recipient of
>this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
>distribution or copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Research Administration List
>[mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] On Behalf Of Young,
>Katherine S
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:24 PM
>To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation
>
>You should look at the updated guidelines.....
>
>Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid
>
>
>-----Original message-----
>From: "Betcher, Gina I" <xxxxxx@ECU.EDU>
>To: "xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org"
><xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org>
>Sent: Tue, Aug 28, 2012 22:21:59 GMT+00:00
>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation
>
>Participant Support is exempt from indirect costs.
>
>From: Research Administration List
>[mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] On Behalf Of Jill Diehl
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:32 PM
>To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation
>
>If they are budgeted as participant support costs, which is what the
>NSF REU RFP referes to them as (the student stipend and tuition),
>wouldn¹t they be excluded per NSF policy?
>
>Jill Diehl
>Grants & Contracts Specialist II
>Sponsored Projects Office
>70 Lower College Road, 2nd Floor
>Kingston, RI  02881
>(401) 874-5452 Phone
>(401) 874-7044 Fax
>xxxxxx@mail.uri.edu<mailto:xxxxxx@mail.uri.edu>
>
>[clip_image001]
>
>
>From: Research Administration List
>[mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org]<mailto:[mailto:xxxxxx@list
>s.h
>ealthresearch.org]>
>On Behalf Of Wood, Roger
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:53 PM
>To:
>xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org<mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.
>org
>>
>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation
>
>Jean Feldman just mentioned (yesterday at FDP) that NSF was getting
>this question quite a bit. And, her answer was "look at your Indirect
>Cost Rate Agreement letter. If the costs are included in your rate,
>then include them; if the costs are excluded from your rate, then
>exclude them. Period."
>(Perhaps that's not really a direct quote, but its certainly the
>message she
>conveyed!) The answer would depend on whether those particular costs
>are included or excluded in your institution's rate agreement and thus
>the answer might vary from institution to institution.
>
>Roger
>________________________________
>Roger Wood
>Sr. Product Manager
>
>v   +1  518. 713. 4200   ext  150
>f    +1  518. 713. 4201<span style="color:#003F
>
>
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