I think you are all looking at this wrong.  The old REU program, as I know
you are all award, allowed 25% indirect recovery on participant costs ONLY.
The new solicitation is allowing full indirect recovery based on your
indirect cost rate agreement.  If your IDCR agreement is based on Modified
Total Direct Costs that excludes participant support costs, tuition, and
equipment.  So, for NSF to now allow full IDC recovery, is probably actually
costing us more.  The majority of expenses for an REU are to be for
Participant support costs.  At $500 per week for 10 student for a 10 week
program for stipend only is $50K, then add the housing, meals, etc, all of
which falls under the Participant support costs and all of which do NOT fall
under the indirect cost calculation.

Bonnie Kwit
Grant and Contract Officer
Oakland University
Office of Research Administration
505 Wilson Hall
(248) 370-4116

-----Original Message-----
From: Research Administration List
[mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] On Behalf Of xxxxxx@mcdaniel.edu
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:32 AM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation

Okay - I have to admit this has left me completely confuzzled. Add to it my
faculty member that has basically said "if we have to charge indirects, I'm
not writing the grant".

Maybe a call to the program officer is in order.

Robin

On Aug 29, 2012, at 9:19 AM, "Young, Katherine S" <xxxxxx@ILSTU.EDU> wrote:

> The PAPP are general guidelines but when there are specific programmatic
guidelines, they prevail, e.g.  International Programs exclude F&A on
foreign travel, but you do not generally exclude it under a standard
program.
>
> Kathy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Research Administration List
> [mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] On Behalf Of Laura
> Letbetter
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 8:05 AM
> To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
> Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation
>
> Yes, the new REU guidelines say to use your rate, but the PAPP says
participant support is excluded from indirect costs. Many NSF solicitations
say "Indirect Cost (F&A) Limitations: Not Applicable," but that doesn't mean
you can collect indirects on participant support. Did Jean Feldman
specifically say that the PAPP guidance on indirects does not apply to the
REU solicitation?
>
>
> Laura Letbetter
> Director, Proposal Development
> Office of Research
> Kennesaw State University, 1000 Chastain Road, MD 0111 Kennesaw Hall,
> Room 3419 (deliveries), Kennesaw, GA 30144-5591
> Direct: 770.499.3365 | Main line: 770-423-6738 |Fax: 770-499-3620
> xxxxxx@kennesaw.edu |www.kennesaw.edu/ogc
>
> This email, and any attachments, is intended only for use by the
> addressee(s) named herein and may contain privileged and/or confidential
information.  If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
email, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Research Administration List
> [mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] On Behalf Of Young,
> Katherine S
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:24 PM
> To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
> Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation
>
> You should look at the updated guidelines.....
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid
>
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Betcher, Gina I" <xxxxxx@ECU.EDU>
> To: "xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org"
> <xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org>
> Sent: Tue, Aug 28, 2012 22:21:59 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation
>
> Participant Support is exempt from indirect costs.
>
> From: Research Administration List
> [mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] On Behalf Of Jill Diehl
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:32 PM
> To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
> Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation
>
> If they are budgeted as participant support costs, which is what the NSF
REU RFP referes to them as (the student stipend and tuition), wouldn't they
be excluded per NSF policy?
>
> Jill Diehl
> Grants & Contracts Specialist II
> Sponsored Projects Office
> 70 Lower College Road, 2nd Floor
> Kingston, RI  02881
> (401) 874-5452 Phone
> (401) 874-7044 Fax
> xxxxxx@mail.uri.edu<mailto:xxxxxx@mail.uri.edu>
>
> [clip_image001]
>
>
> From: Research Administration List
> [mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org]<mailto:[mailto:xxxxxx@lis
> ts.healthresearch.org]>
> On Behalf Of Wood, Roger
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:53 PM
> To:
> xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org<mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch
> .org>
> Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NSF REU Indirect Cost (F&A) Calculation
>
> Jean Feldman just mentioned (yesterday at FDP) that NSF was getting this
question quite a bit. And, her answer was "look at your Indirect Cost Rate
Agreement letter. If the costs are included in your rate, then include them;
if the costs are excluded from your rate, then exclude them. Period."
> (Perhaps that's not really a direct quote, but its certainly the
> message she
> conveyed!) The answer would depend on whether those particular costs are
included or excluded in your institution's rate agreement and thus the
answer might vary from institution to institution.
>
> Roger
> ________________________________
> Roger Wood
> Sr. Product Manager
>
> v   +1  518. 713. 4200   ext  150
> f    +1  518. 713. 4201<span style="color:#003F
>
>
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 Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including
 subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
 via our web site at http://www.healthresearch.org (click on the
 "LISTSERV" link in the upper right corner)

 A link directly to helpful tips:  http://tinyurl.com/resadm-l-help
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