What we've been doing is printing the PureEdge file to pdf and then
inserting the individual pdf sections in the resulting document.  It
takes about a half hour, if everything has already been formatted, as
well as the full adobe program; but it gives the PI (and other internal
reviewers) something to work with.  We can do this AS LONG AS the PI
submits the files in a timely manner.  Another factor is that we seldom
have more than five applications for any one date.

On one of the last rounds, we wrestled with the correct biosketch (three
times) and role for one investigator.

Judith Lubina
Manager, Bid & Proposal
Public Health Institute
555 12th Street, 10th Floor
Oakland, CA  94607-4046
direct tel:  510.285.5568
main tel:  510.285.5500
fax:  510.285.5501
xxxxxx@phi.org,   www.phi.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On
Behalf Of Bob Beattie
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:10 PM
To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] NIH gets tough with corrections

I suggest that Grants Office Staff -- SO's -- should, without question,
reject applications at the request of the PI, up to the second day after
the deadline (the two day correction window) to allow for the correction
of whatever errors the PI finds -- typos, wrong files attached,
including fixing warnings, and such, but not substantive changes (but
difficult to stop).  At the same time that the PI found these kinds of
errors in an assembled application, the system generated errors should
be found as well and could be fixed too.  But if they are unnoticed or
do not yet crop up, then there is another two day window after that
resubmission gets reassembled.

If we do not allow for the fixing of anything in that first two day
window, extra clever PI's will just build in a Warning causing item
and thus have the reason to check and  re-do the file if necessary.
Ostensibly to fix the Warning.

As long as NIH is allowing two days to fix errors after the submission,
and will even accept changes due to warnings, after the application is
assembled, they cannot, in good conscience, prevent a PI from fixing
typos or other non-substantive problems that shows up in the assembled
document, being seen for the first time by the PI in final form.  If NIH
or Grants.gov cannot provide a way to view, prior to submission,  the
application as the reviewers will see it, then the PI must be allowed to
fix such things.

It would be much better if there were a pre-submission way to view the
final application.  I wonder why after two years no one has been able to
create a program to do this.  There are vendors who have S2S programs
that find errors, but does any show a final application as it would be
after assembly by NIH.  Why cannot there be a "test server" to which an
application can be sent to get a look at what the final assembly would
do? Until then, we must allow PI's to fix the appearance of the
application.

Even after NIH becomes like other agencies and allows no post submission
fatal error fixing, there must still be the two day viewing window, even
one day, so PI's can see what the reviewers see and have at least one
chance to make corrections of a non-substantive nature.

Best yet, would be for all submissions to be not only on time, but with
enough time prior to the deadline to allow the PI to view and fix the
assembled file.

Bob
xxxxxx@umich.edu

On Dec 5, 2007, at 3:17 PM, Foster, Kathleen C wrote:

 From reading the NIH Guide announcement, it seems to me that the only
acceptable reason for submitting a changed/corrected application after
the deadline is to correct an error/warning identified by the Commons
validation process. We now have two business days to do this instead of
five. The announcement states explicitly that:

(1) All application corrections must be in response to a system-
identified error/warning (application submissions with additional
changes may be refused), and

(2) If final submission is sent after the receipt date, a cover letter
attachment must be included identifying the system-identified
errors/warnings that have been corrected.

My interpretation is that we could reject a successful submission and
submit a changed/corrected application before the deadline to change
something the PI didn't like about the application (although NIH does
not encourage this); however, this option no longer exists post-
deadline (if, in fact, the option officially existed at all before).

The fact the application is visible in the Commons for two business days
before it moves on to the Division of Receipt and Referral doesn't help
you much once the deadline has passed. You could reject and resubmit to
correct system-identified "warnings," but you aren't allowed to correct
anything else, at that point. I understand the point that, perhaps, no
one would notice if you made other changes; however, NIH has stated in
writing that such applications could be refused. It seems very risky to
me to tell PIs anything other than what NIH has stated. Perhaps my
approach is overly conservative, though. Could someone from NIH clarify
this point for the ListServ?

Kathleen Foster

Director, Research Systems and Funding Information

Office of Sponsored Programs

Boston University

p: 617.353.4365

f: 617.353.6660

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 Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including
subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists")
======================================================================

======================================================================
 Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including
 subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
 via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists")
======================================================================