Attached (hopefully) to this message is a pdf file containing a picture of
a budget to the American Heart Association.  The Southeast Affiliate has a
just in time process related to proposal budgets which requires that
detailed budgets not be "created" until the decision is made to award us.
We are just supposed to ask for a max $71,500 each year.  No budget
justification is requested at this time.

This budget was provided by the PI without us having to ask for it and we
have since asked for additional details which he was happy to share - he
actually had them right in front of him.  It was a nice and quick
experience for us but we have mucho questions about this whole deal.
Hopefully this forum can provide some of the answers.

1)      The salaries are not escalated each year although the effort is
identified as 35%.  The first year calculation is correct but this year we
will receive at least a 2% COLA.  Should the PI reduce his effort or should
the difference be considered cost share?

2)      Normally we would not question chemicals, reagents etc.  but what about
lab supplies?  Is it necessary to ask what is contemplated in general under
this fairly broad heading?  What if the PI intends to restock the lab with
surplus "stuff"?  How could we tell anyway?

3)      The animals line item is simply $1,500 per year.  Do we need to know
what animals, how many and how much per animal?

4)      Animal per diem is also summarized as $1,200 per year.  Do we need to
know the details behind the number of days and rate charged?  If so, why?

The reasons for these questions are probably obvious.  PI's don't
understand why we request details about how they calculated their budgets.
Debates over allocability weaken when they bring success of the science
into the discussion because no one is an expert on every field and many of
us do not have scientific backgrounds.  Debates over allowability - outside
of published sponsor regs and institutional policy - get hazy when we move
away from Federal funding.  Some institutions have a policy of not pursuing
CAS 502 as diligently on non-federal projects so how much does it matter
that details are provided on these non-fed budgets?  Reasonableness gets
foggy for similar reasons to allocability because we are the scientist in
this case.  Consistency is a hard one to argue at the budget stage if you
decide that it really only matters on federal funding.

This discussion is probably very similar to the same ones we have had
recently on modular grants.  Maybe the non-federal aspect adds another
dimension to the discussion.  I know where I stand on all of these and we
have some fairly strict guidelines in our office that we follow
consistently regardless of the source of funds.  If you have the time to
think about it some, I am anxious to hear how other schools are dealing
with this issue and why they do or do not pursue detailed budgets.  If you
want to respond to me directly instead of the list, I can summarize answers
and post general stats to the list at a later date.  Thanks for your input.