We (JHU) have actually had an award.  Prior to award we had to submit budget
pages, justification, and checklist.  We find it much easier to work the
numbers during the first submission, so you don't find yourself in the
situation of having to make significant changes to your earlier
submission...and worse yet..having to justify why.

Meghan Carter
Deputy Administrator
Health Policy and Management
School of Public Health
Johns Hopkins University
phone (410) 955-2417
fax   (410) 614-9152

-----Original Message-----
From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org]On Behalf
Of Jennifer Morgan
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 2:58 PM
To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
Subject: A Modular Proposal -Reply

Charlie-
The total cost cannot be calculated without some estimate of what will
be spent on various categories.  While I don't care if they send the
budgets over to me on NIH forms or a torn piece of brown paper bag, I
do want to see that they are not planning to charge indirects for
equipment or patient care costs, etc.
Also, my understanding is that the GMO does want a budget before the
final NGA is generated.  So it is going to have to be done anyway at
some point in time.  Has anyone else been under that impression?
-Jennifer

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Jennifer Morgan
Director of Sponsored Programs
Office of Grants & Contracts
Allegheny Campus
Allegheny Univ. of the Health Sciences
One Allegheny Center, Suite 880
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania  15212
412-359-1523 (voice)
412-359-1556 (fax)
xxxxxx@pgh.auhs.edu

>>> Charlie Hathaway <xxxxxx@AECOM.YU.EDU> 09/15/98 02:33pm
>>>
Hi-

>Since we still need to construct a budget to get to the >bottom line (the
only figure NIH wants) we require a >detailed budget as in the past.

 Sorry to resurrect this discussion of a month past, but shouldn't all of
these "Just-in-Time" questions also be asked of the impending "Modular
Grants" system?  The difference is that NIH will NEVER (except in rare
circumstances) ask for the budget details...even when the grant is
awarded.
 I am a novice to fiscal management, but if NIH does not care about
details like the cost of a trip to a meeting, or the cost of supplies X and
Y, or whether subjects are paid $10 or $40, then does the institution
need
to know before the actual expenditure?
 Clearly, a detailed budget is useful in guessing whether grant funds are
being used appropriately.  But if the PI can come up with a bottom line
based on estimated modules which looks reasonable (to reviewers) in
relation to the science, and all personnel and indirect cost questions are
answered, then why do the absolute details ever need to be
PROPOSED?
Awarded funds are never spent exactly the way the budget reads.
Why not
let all of the details emerge as money is spent?
 A grant is not a contract.  How flexible can we be?

Charlie Hathaway
Office of Grant Support
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Bronx, NY