This is a good thread of idea exchanging!
For every one professor who, like the one described by Chris below, thinks grant-seeking is a waste of time, there are about a dozen who say the act of proposal writing was beneficial even if they do not receive a grant. It helps them to clarify their ideas for themselves, focus on what is most important, articulate the ideas so that others can understand, think through the budget to determine what they will need for the next period of research, to engage potential collaborators or writers of reference letters, and to gain confidence that they are onto something and that they really are the best person to do this work.

My last-minute questions are usually related to the budget (are fringe and indirect costs included and correctly calculated?), and to make sure that all the required components are included.
Given more time - I generally request a week - I will also read, proofread and edit the narrative portions as best I can, check word counts where there are limits, and look for consistency/agreement in the various parts.  We always intend to submit the best possible proposal in this highly competitive grant-world; experience has taught us that it takes time to be excellent.

Best to all,
Diana

Diana Thompson Vincelli
Director of Grant Support
Office of Foundation, Corporate & Government Relations (FCGR)
(mail) 28 Westhampton Way  (location) 104 Puryear Hall
University of Richmond, VA  23173-0001
804.289.8005   fax 804.287.1433   mobile 804.426.6907

-----Original Message-----
From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] On Behalf Of Hathaway, Charles
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 9:30 AM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Pre-review

I tell junior faculty that there are a few people in the universe whose ideas alone, i.e. just the synaptic energy, will be a magnet for funding.  A bunch more can succeed by submitting incomplete sentences done in pencil on notebook paper.  But the rest of us need to go through the normal process, follow rules, and think about the quality of the transaction with the reader/reviewer.  God help us if "nuts and bolts" are of primary importance in getting funded.  Ask professional grant writers how much magic they can do with underlying crappy science.

But as Liane Reif-Lehrer famously wrote, "It takes more than just a good idea."  How much more depends on the idea and how much an investigator will leave to chance.  If he/she feels their idea is competitive, then go ahead and invest in carbon frames and electronic shifters. You don't need to win the race to get a grant.  You just need to do whatever you can to be near the front.
Charlie
________________________________
From: Research Administration List [xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] on behalf of Chris Thompson [xxxxxx@MODERAS.ORG]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 8:54 PM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Pre-review

One small point related to pre-approval. I was speaking with an investigator who had 20+ years of experience. I asked him what he thought about it and he felt it was a waste of time. I said to him that it was really triage and felt it was good for the overall community. His feeling was that administration didn't understand that if he had an idea for research that even if it was rejected he'd still pursue it. He's find other ways to get it funded. That 90% of the work wasn't the proposal, it was the idea and that boiling it down to nuts and bolts was wrong thinking.

I'm not sure I completely agree but felt it was worth sharing as it did give me pause.

Chris

www.moderas.co<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.moderas.co&d=DwMFaQ&c=A51OX6aSaU1ywwq_3bUC2Q&r=tcRn2WiOL_QxPQ6lSR8GPgI-pnLyPE9tN0yoPoJwruY&m=rgvFRDI8FcDkjAQURfDAx-nl1sQvy_E20cWTKHLEKpc&s=WHv1vf343CCrk2-jaXicHvfWakDT4nckg8EQur4hgK0&e=>

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 23, 2017, at 5:27 PM, Hathaway, Charles <xxxxxx@NYMC.EDU<mailto:xxxxxx@nymc.edu>> wrote:

Answers to this could take many words.  Obviously there are technical and compliance issues.  But from a grantsmanship perspective, if you have 2 hours or less:

1)      Make sure all spelling and grammar  in the title, abstract, and Specific Aims (or equivalent) are perfect.

2)      Make sure the abstract and Aims page are consistent (e.g. stated goals, objectives, aims are +/- the same)

3)      Read through the Specific Aims page (or equivalent introduction) and clean up as much as possible.

4)      Make sure the PI email address on face page is not xxxxxx@hotmail.com<mailto:xxxxxx@hotmail.com>

Problems with the above can and should be fixed quickly.

Refuse to submit: after 20 years in this business, including about 10+ where I really had the authority and credibility to stop a submission, I have only done so for overall content/presentation reasons about 5 times.  And the reason was always that it would help neither the investigator nor the institution to have a poor quality proposal make its way to a review panel that will, without question, remember for some time what they have seen.

CH

*************************************
Charles B. Hathaway, Ph.D.
Assistant Dean for Research Administration Director, Office of Research Administration School of Medicine New York Medical College
40 Sunshine Cottage Road, GN-B28
Valhalla, NY  10595-1524
914.594.2600
xxxxxx@nymc.edu<mailto:xxxxxx@nymc.edu>

From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org] On Behalf Of Megan Roth
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 4:49 PM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org<mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org>
Subject: [RESADM-L] Pre-review

Would you all share what you consider best practices for pre-review of a grant application before it is submitted.
What do you look at?
What changes would you require of a PI, last minute?
What conditions would prompt you to refuse a submission?
Thanks,

--
Megan Roth, Ph.D.
Director, Office of Research and Sponsored Programs Abilene Christian University
320 Hardin Administration Bldg
ACU Box 29103
Abilene, TX 79699
O: 325-674-2885
F: 325-674-6785
xxxxxx@acu.edu<mailto:xxxxxx@acu.edu>
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 Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including<br>
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