Carolyn-  I agree with you on the reality. But not on the care with which we describe it.  I feel the language being used ("distribution of IDC", "PI's IDC earnings", "return of IDC") could lead to big misconceptions in people who are unfamiliar with how this whole F&A process works.  And you know what? At least half of new Asst Profs are in that group.  And almost all people on the cusp of deciding if academia and science are trustworthy are in that group.  So I think the perceptions are important.
CH

My Sent iPhone From

On Mar 30, 2016, at 8:48 PM, Carolyn Elliott-Farino <xxxxxx@KENNESAW.EDU<mailto:xxxxxx@kennesaw.edu>> wrote:

The IDC rate is indirect costs divided by direct costs. SPO admin, facilities, library -- they would all be in the numerator. Research costs are a direct cost and go in the denominator. Brandt is correct that IDC is meant to reimburse the U for its F&A costs, but the Federal Government puts no restrictions on how you spend those recovered funds. If your direct costs increase at a greater rate than your indirect costs do in your next preparation, your rate will decrease.

If you "give" the IDC to central admin, how do you know how it is being spent?

I believe Brandt and Charlie are overthinking this. If you correctly classified all your expenditures for your rate preparation and your cognizant agency reviewed the proposal and agreed with it (probably with some modification), they aren't going to come after you if you provide the IDC to your researchers. After all, you have the right to spend your funds the way you want to.

________________________________
From: "Brandt Burgess" <xxxxxx@RESEARCH.UCSB.EDU<mailto:xxxxxx@research.ucsb.edu>>
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org<mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 2:11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] How are indirects distributed at your institution?

I think it is dangerous for universities and colleges to take this approach, or at least declare it to the public.

If the cognizant governmental agency heard that you were giving IDC funds directly to your investigators for their research, I believe that they would take exception to that.

The IDC is meant to replenish the coffers for the “actual costs" that a university incurs by providing facilities and administration of sponsored projects, not to give extra money to the researchers to do research. That’s what the direct costs are for.  You are double dipping. The government and tax payers do not like double dipping.

When you calculate the IDC rate for your university annually, is there a expense column for an investigator’s research fund?  I doubt it.

Brandt

Brandt Burgess, Ph.D.
Director of Research Integrity
University of California Santa Barbara
Phone:  (805) 893-5292

From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org<mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org>] On Behalf Of Mary-Ellen Fortini
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 9:57 AM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org<mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org>
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] How are indirects distributed at your institution?

The indirect cost rate reflects the "actual costs" that a university incurs by providing facilities and administration of sponsored projects.  Presumably, those expenses have already incurred when the grant is charged and the idc received is the recovery of those expenses.  Since the University has already covered those expenses, the recovery of those dollars can be distributed however the university wants to do it.

Mary-Ellen Fortini, PhD
Director of Sponsored Projects
St Joseph's Hall, 116
Santa Clara University
Santa Clara, CA 95053
408-554-4806 (phone)
408-554-2389 (fax)

Please consider the environment before printing this email.

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 4:56 PM, Brandt Burgess <xxxxxx@research.ucsb.edu<mailto:xxxxxx@research.ucsb.edu>> wrote:
Quick question(s):

Is giving money back to the researcher really what the indirect rate is set up for? Isn’t supposed to reflect the “hidden costs” universities or colleges expend to support research?

If you are directly giving large chucks of your Indirect back to your researchers, it would seem that your indirect rate is too high.

Thoughts?

Brandt

Brandt Burgess, Ph.D.
Director of Research Integrity
University of California Santa Barbara
Phone:  (805) 893-5292<tel:%28805%29%20893-5292>

From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org<mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org>] On Behalf Of Mary-Ellen Fortini
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 3:26 PM

To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org<mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org>
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] How are indirects distributed at your institution?

At Santa Clara University:  30% to the University general fund; 70% back to the school where the grant originated (into Dean's discretionary account - most Dean's make it available to the PI of the award somehow)

Mary-Ellen Fortini, PhD
Director of Sponsored Projects
St Joseph's Hall, 116
Santa Clara University
Santa Clara, CA 95053
408-554-4806<tel:408-554-4806> (phone)
408-554-2389<tel:408-554-2389> (fax)

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On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Nancy Riker <xxxxxx@westernu.edu<mailto:xxxxxx@westernu.edu>> wrote:
Hi,
At WU: 15% to the College; 43% to the VP of Research and Biotechnology for a General Research Pool; and 42% goes back to the General University under the direction of the CFO.

Best Regards,
Nancy Riker
Director, Post Award/Grant Accounting
Sponsored Programs and Contract Management

Western University of Health Sciences
309 E. Second Street
Pomona, CA 91766
909-469-5458<tel:909-469-5458>
909-469-5569<tel:909-469-5569> fax
xxxxxx@westernu.edu<mailto:xxxxxx@westernu.edu>
www.westernu.edu<http://cp.mcafee.com/d/k-Kr6x8i3x8SyM-qemnDSkm3tPqdXLFTjsu76QrTvjKCesvdETK-DtdNVUSztVdBdxBxMToDIj_EaAZCjQNFo5gbaSXQ6Ps2OJKZ1ISzX8WPHz_nVBxxB4tRXBQSjhOeUsCeusjWyaqRQRrCzB7BgY-F6lK1FJ4SyYrhWWgb6xwg3xIK5jtPo08NZ9_63vuwTxKFy7NbN-CEaBPMkvaAWsj_jVAU_jZzoDM04S-MUy-r1vF6y0QJwIq610e6OUldbFEw2Zj1EwSfCy2k49h-QW6y12l9NAgrDW1EwSpEwblryq89gFekSVOH0ArsvdGC2EcsthwV4f>

Confidential Note:
The information in this email is confidential information only for use of the individual or entity addressed and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination or copy of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error, please notify me via telephone. Thank you.

From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org<mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org>] On Behalf Of Andrew Gray
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:43 AM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org<mailto:xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org>
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] How are indirects distributed at your institution?

Jennifer, here is UAF's.

https://www.uaf.edu/ogca/resources/regulations/indirect/60-40-ICR.pdf<http://cp.mcafee.com/d/avndzhJ5xYQsILfIEI6XCQrTvjKCUYedETK-DtcsU-rhLtZeWrzPNJ6XOrar3b3xKNfoD_gl9XcDFziMawmlJTEdCU5BrtW3pJ7ShRDn7-LPb33a8XHTbFICzAtMVcsYUDR4kRHFGTd7afaxVZicHs3jqpJ5USzRQwmd30w73psaCXCOsVHkiP2DdWXTEdVkzrszZaJNJZczV5I_pOH2CiwxafSDzBOX5OUq90LBA7jtj4fynzZdglbDwE-l9QUD-DP9N-DX6Nfw09JZxN5YS2_id41Fr1oQc20sdBMGqnjh05WC3h1Ivd44E8izZFQd424Gjz8wTfQ3h1IPh0mGT4QgixisFJPBm18SU-rrLOEZRfgkXv1>

Cheers,
Andrew

Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 29, 2016, at 9:18 AM, Jennifer Shambrook <xxxxxx@ucf.edu<mailto:xxxxxx@ucf.edu>> wrote:
I am serving on a committee that wants to do a little benchmarking on indirect cost distributions at other institutions. I need to offer a report on this next week.

Here at UCF, the Provost gets the first 3%, then the remainder is split 45/55 with colleges/research VP. The college deans have the flexibility to determine how (or if) the money that goes to their college is distributed to departments and investigators.

How do you do distribute indirects at your institution?

Feel free to send to me directly, of you’d like.

I’ll post a compilation of what I’ve collected at the end, if others are interested.

Thanks!

Jennifer Shambrook, Ph.D.
Director of Research Programs and Services
Office of Research & Commercialization
University of Central Florida
12201 Research Parkway, Suite 501
Orlando, FL 32826-3246
<image001.png>
Phone: (407)823-0387<tel:%28407%29823-0387>
Fax: (407)823-3299<tel:%28407%29823-3299>
xxxxxx@ucf.edu<mailto:xxxxxx@ucf.edu>

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