I have come across some sponsored programs people who must be the type this PI has encountered, and they frustrate me as well. These are the people who say things like, "This guy is so stupid, how did he get his PhD when he can't even follow simple directions?" I always want to counter with, "And how is your gene-splicing going?" They act as though their job would be great if not for the pesky professors that keep bothering them, without even a thought to the fact that it's the professors' research activities that are providing them with their jobs. I find that kind of attitude extremely ignorant. However, those are probably also the people who don't care enough about their job knowledge to sign up for an informative listserve like this one. -----Original Message----- From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Katz Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:23 PM To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] FURLOUGHS Thanks Paula and everyone else that responded to my response. Obviously this is a very sore topic for all of us that do work so hard and long to aid our faculty in the pursuit of their research endeavors and to enhance our institutions. Just remember for every one of these disgruntled faculty (and we all have at least one :) ) there are so many more that are appreciative and supportive. Knowing that helps keep us doing what we do. Matt Matthew D. Katz, MHA Assistant Vice President, Sponsored Research and Contract Management Western University of Health Sciences 309 E. 2nd Street Pomona, CA 91766 (909) 469-5567 (909) 469-5569 FAX -----Original Message----- From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On Behalf Of Mccauley, Paula M Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 6:55 AM To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] FURLOUGHS Thank you, Matthew. That was put very nicely. It can be so frustrating (and sometimes even demoralizing) when we are vilified by researchers. We strive so hard to facilitate research by allowing our faculty to focus on the science while we worry about regulations and policy. It's not a glamorous job, but I think most of us take extreme pride in the part we play in important scientific endeavors. Paula McCauley-Shelton, B.A. Grants Manager UAMS Department of Pediatrics Grants Administration MS 512-1 501-364-2368 Phone 501-364-4656 Fax xxxxxx@uams.edu *NEW* We've Moved! The Pediatric Grants Administration group is now located on the 3rd floor of the ACHRI Building. -----Original Message----- From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Katz Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:59 PM To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] FURLOUGHS Alex, sorry to contradict you and it sounds like you've had some very difficult dealings with sponsored program offices in the past, but awards are not made to individuals. This is made very clear in every Program Announcement and RFA as well as all federal regulations. In fact, if you read the RFA's you have to belong to an institution in order to even apply for a grant award. And awards can only be moved to another institution if the receiving institution allows the transfer. Obviously both faculty and institutions need each other for grants. It is the faculty with their intellect and know how and scientific ideas that generates the awards and it is the institutions that foster that scientific creativity and provide space and necessary services for these research projects to be carried out. Sponsored Program offices serve as the liaison between the institution, the PI and the sponsors to ensure that everyone keeps to the task at hand. We ensure that sponsor guidelines and regulations are met, that the PI's have access to the resources to do their work and aid in any difficulties they may encounter and to represent the institution in all situations. It is not unusual for faculty to feel that the Sponsored program office is more of a hinderance then help but in reality without the sponsored program office, faculty would be forced to decipher regulations on their own and take valuable time away from their scientific endeavors. The sponsored programs office allows faculty to focus on the science and if you work with the adminstrators instead of against them, you'd find that things would actually work faster and more effectively. That's how we try to work at my institution. Matthew ________________________________ From: Research Administration List on behalf of l alex Sent: Wed 5/13/2009 8:00 PM To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] FURLOUGHS NO...you're WRONG. The awards are to the INDIVIDUAL - that's why they can be moved to other institutions. (not to make ad hominen comments, but unless one has ever written/been awarded several R01s/PPGs, SPA people have NO idea the mental toll this takes on an individual). It' the SPA people who have said outright to me that if it weren't for SPA, the PIs would "steal" the $ for "shag carpet"! Yes, these extremely hard won, intellectually gifted PIs once they are lucky enough to even receive an award, this of course is the 1st thing on their list! I take exception to this systemic attitude that the PIs work for SPA and the the zeal put forth by SPA to increase the IDC rates. There is only so much sponsor/NIH pie, and I frankly would rather it be spent on SCIENCE not administrators whose idea of help in grant submissions is to forward NIH website addresses or send reams of boiler plate text. What is SPA being paid for (by the PIs IDCs) if not to provide assistance/guidance when it is needed. This is why there is resentment towards SPA - the hubris that it IS their $. If not for the unique ideas and hard fought effort to get a grant (currently at the 15%-tile at certain institutes at NIH), there would be NO IDCs, SPA, etc. These PIs who often work 80+ hours/week, while the SPA people often are MIA, conveniently just prior to grant deadline, off for "training" or conventions. Obviously this is a sore point due to excessive hours prepping a grant for which the SPA person, left the office at 2PM. So what if it doesn't get submitted in time; it'll only mean a loss of some $5 million in IDCs, much less than the actually the DC, which SPA doesn't care about. SO...please do furlough, to get back to the topic, but at least please do it to state line/admin people, who seem to be in abundance in most institutions, often with grandiose titles, e.g. Coordinator of Excellence & Efficiency Director! May 13, 2009 10:09:21 PM, xxxxxx@hrinet.org wrote: =========================================== Make your point. It sounds like you are saying the institutions are "stealing" the PIs F&A. The grants are given to the institutions. The awards belong to the institutions. The indirect costs belong to the institutions, not the highly funded, tenured PIs. Most gifts are given to institutions, too. Normally they are restricted and bear little F&A. Depending upon the sponsor/terms/instution/policy, these funds can be portable if the PI leaves. The PI, SPAs and anyone who manages these accounts should be responsible. Also, under certain conditions, severance and unemployment CAN be charged to DHHS grants. ________________________________ From: Research Administration List on behalf of l alexander Sent: Wed 5/13/2009 8:54 PM To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] FURLOUGHS I can't wait for the lawsuits to begin from highly funded, tenured faculty who provide the institutions with a rich source of IDCs, which the SPAs are all to happy to take their cut FIRST. Can't wait to have the NIH audit these instituions. May 13, 2009 11:39:22 AM, xxxxxx@hrinet.org wrote: =========================================== We have implemented furlough days and applied them to all employees, regardless of funding source, no exceptions. Our employees are employed by the state and furlough days apply to all state employees, even if their salary is grant funded. Sara Sara L. Wilhelm Grant Accountant General Accounting Hitchins Room 109 Frostburg State University Phone: 301-687-7054 Fax: 301-687-4494 xxxxxx@frostburg.edu ________________________________ From: Research Administration List on behalf of Wilma Ennenga Sent: Wed 5/13/2009 11:29 AM To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org Subject: [RESADM-L] FURLOUGHS Good morning! It's a beautiful 75 F degrees in Flagstaff, glorious blue skies, fragrant pine trees, trails calling and yet here I am at work. So it had better be for something fun like the "Furlough Issue" as it has come to be known in some locales. Still, I'd rather be outside so I'd appreciate your soonest response to these questions! The questions: * Is your university (1) considering and/or (2) implementing FURLOUGHS? * If so, will the furlough program apply to all employees regardless of funding source? * Alternatively, are you making an exception for "non-state" funding and exempting those employees? If everybody replies directly to me - xxxxxx@nau.edu - rather than to the listserve, I promise to post a summary of responses by COB today. Thanks, Winnie Wilma G. (Winnie) Ennenga Director, Office of Grant and Contract Services Northern Arizona University Applied Research and Development Bldg. #56, Suite 240 1298 South Knoles Drive Flagstaff, AZ 86011-4130 Telephone: 928/523-8319 Fax: 928/523-1075 P Please consider the environment before printing this email ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. 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