Re: S2S for a small institution Bob Beattie 26 Feb 2009 09:19 EST
At one time, when G.g was new, and S2S options were just getting started, there were discussions of "Service Bureaus" for grants submissions. Larger institutions would provide access to their S2S to smaller schools in the region or state. Alternatively, vendors would give server access to places that could not afford to implement systems on campus. In both cases this would be done for some fixed fee for maintaining the files and an additional fee for each usage. Once a system is up and running, it is only a small increment to add another user. I have not heard much, recently, of this potential solution for the small user. Another arrangement might be for small institutions in a region to form a collective, each campus taking some part in the maintenance and operation of the system used by all members of the consortium. I only mention this as a regional grouping so that there can be centralized training without much travel. It is, of course, possible for a virtual consortium with web based training. Anyway, these might serve the needs of the smaller participants in the grants business. It is important to note, that the first "S" in S2S is critical in any discussion. The assumption of the original developers of Grants.gov was that a campus would have an internal grants management system. This would allow PI and their staff to create an application and all the internal data requirements, route electronically for necessary approvals, and have it end up in the grants office for submission to G.g, and for local archiving of the data, and integrating with the financial system if awarded. Without the local proposal management system, a service bureau or consortium is just a web based submission mechanism. If Grants.gov were to move itself to a web based system for the "preparation of forms" or better "data entry," (can we get away from thinking in forms terms, now) like FastLane, would smaller places still need a system to system operation if they had no internal system? Would there still be a need for S2S? Is web based proposal preparation and submission a S2S if it does not have the full proposal/budget creation function, including looking up salaries and bringing in things like current and pending funding or space data, cloning previous applications, then have full routing, data management, and integration with financials? Just some ideas inspired by Greg's thoughtful comments and the others in this thread. Now on to trying to submit some of those pesky forms :) Bob ------------------------------ Robert Beattie UMich Grants.gov Liaison University of Michigan xxxxxx@umich.edu (734) 936-1283 On Feb 25, 2009, at 5:39 PM, Gregory K. Schmidt wrote: Thanks Tom for the clarification. While I agree that Coeus is modular, in a school where they're doing under $30M I would guess that the person doing grants management is also doing development work. There is probably two or three people who manage the Administrative IT systems, which are most likely student-centric, as they should be. Have to keep the kiddies in class and have their grades recorded. So while the modules may or may not be added, they're pretty important to have at some time. A manual system needs maintenance, and possibly more so than a computerized one. Computer systems though need different skill-sets, and often ones not prevalent in persons in the development office. All I'm saying is that you have to look at the needs and assess them. Look at skill-sets of staff at hand. Determine the work-load and estimate any increases for each system you're looking to purchase. Figure out if any issues are involved in integrating into your ERP system and what interfaces you may need. Determine training needs on an ongoing basis. All this is added to the cost. My guess, and it IS a guess, is that a smaller integrated grants management system will be easier on a small school's infrastructure and the sanity of its administrators. Greg Schmidt GKS Consulting, LLC 703-346-5696 This information is intended for the named recipient only and may contain confidential/privileged material. Review, dissemination, or use of, or reliance on this information by others is prohibited. If received in error, please contact xxxxxx@verizon.net and delete. -----Original Message----- From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Drinane Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 1:01 PM To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] S2S for a small institution A small correction from Dartmouth, a Coeus school. It is true that Coeus, since it's not from a vendor, requires more resources from a school to install, maintain, etc. On the other hand, you use the modules you want. If you don't want to do your IRB through Coeus, you never set up IRB. Rolodex maintenance is pretty much a no-brainer in terms of upkeep. All that said, Cayuse is much more focused on just S2S. If that is really all you want, you might want to look at that. Gregory K. Schmidt wrote: > Terri, Robert, et al; > > It is nice that Coeus is around. MIT has done a wonderful job in > creating > it and growing it. I will say though that there are two issues with Coeus, > but only from the perspective of a small college. > > First, as you mentioned, it's "so much 'deeper'". Do you really > need all > that depth? Your situation could be the proverbial "using a sledge > hammer > for a finish nail application." It's admittedly been awhile since > I've seen > Coeus in action, but you may have to use a lot of the product to get > relatively simple things accomplished. You have to ask if the > number of > steps you'll take to get to the submission and management of the > award is > worth the value of the award. > > Second, with all that depth comes maintenance costs. Coeus is a very > powerful product. Like any integrated computer system you will > need to > think about the underlying accounting system and integrating with > that. > Also, the Rolodex needs to be maintained, the IRB needs to be > created and > managed, the routing of the awards and approval process will need > to be > designed and managed, there will be updates to Coeus and to Oracle > which > will have to be handled, etc. These secondary costs could be large. > > All I'm trying to say is that you cannot really just look at the entry > costs. You need to look at the longer term costs as well. For a > mid- to > large-sized college or university, Coeus is almost a no brainer. > Not so > much for a small college. > > Options other than the two you mentioned below may be IT Works, > InfoEd, > GAMS/ERA Software Systems. > > Greg Schmidt > > GKS Consulting, LLC > 703-346-5696 > > > > This information is intended for the named recipient only and may > contain > confidential/privileged material. Review, dissemination, or use > of, or > reliance on this information by others is prohibited. If received in error, > please contact xxxxxx@verizon.net and delete. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On > Behalf Of > T. Fayle > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 9:34 PM > To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org > Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] S2S for a small institution > > Bob, > > My institution (me) has been reviewing S2S for the last few > months. This > Friday we will be doing a demo for Coeus. I've seen Cayuse and Xythos (more > doc management than res admin). Cayuse is $12,500/year with a 3% > increase > per year. Xythos doesn't want to deal with you unless you have > 600-800 > users, and that would be $47,000 plus support. > > Coeus, on the other hand, was written by research administrators for > research administrators and is the cheapest one of the bunch, $7500 > first > year with 5% increase per year and three year contract. Besides > the fact > that its so much 'deeper' than Cayuse or Xythos or any of the others. After > Friday I can tell you it feels. It seems this is about as cheap as it gets. > > Our institutions has about 11,000 students, 400 faculty and we submit about > 150 projects per year. Our total awards amount to $8.4M, with > about $2M of > that being for research. So, I consider us as one of those 'small > institutions'. > > Terri Fayle > Assistant Director > Sponsored Programs > University of Central Missouri > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On > Behalf Of > Robert Bienkowski > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:14 PM > To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org > Subject: [RESADM-L] S2S for a small institution > > Can anyone suggest a vendor who could provide S2S service for a small > institution with modest plans for grants submissions? > Thanks > > Bob Bienkowski > -- > Robert S Bienkowski, PhD > xxxxxx@att.net > > > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1968 - Release Date: > 02/23/09 > 18:22:00 > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > > -- Tom Drinane 8 Douglas Ridge Norwich, VT 05055 802-356-7843 (M) 802-649-5525 (H) 603-646-3008 (W) ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ======================================================================