Also, when you do a Save-As in the full Adobe Acrobat Professional product, you can save the PDF so that it conforms to an earlier version of the PDF file format. So, you could use 8.1.1 to submit and save your other files as PDF 6.0 documents so they could be used elsewhere in your organization. -- M xxxxxx@UMICH.EDU Sent by: Research Administration To List xxxxxx@hrinet.org <xxxxxx@hrinet. cc org> Subject [RESADM-L] Try both Professional 01/26/2008 09:50 and READER PM Please respond to Research Administration Discussion List <xxxxxx@hrinet. org> Please allow me to say again, there should be no reason you cannot have all Adobe programs on your computer and still use ADOBE READER 8.1.1 to manage Grants.gov applications. I have Professional and ADOBE READER 8.1.1 both on my computer with no proglem except that when I open up Professional it wants to be my browser default. I can stop this message from coming up but it is comforting to know that Reader is displacing it. Does anyone have a conflict with different Adobe programs running on the same computer? Priscilla, have you actually tried to have Professional and Reader on one machine? Is this a problem of having Professional 6.0. Why not upgrade to Professional 8 to do all the .pdf tasks you mention, and also have ADOBE READER 8.1.1 for the Forms Management? Now, I must be careful what I say because there are many different computers and operating systems. If someone does have a problem running both Professional and ADOBE READER 8.1.1 please report your experience. Thanks to Jim Strasma for an excellent description of how to get ADOBE READER 8.1.1 the default on Windows. I will try this, myself, on my Dell on Monday. While I use a Mac for all my work, I admit that I have a non-Mac for testing things :) Bob xxxxxx@umich.edu Quoting Priscilla Kimboko <xxxxxx@GVSU.EDU>: > I'm curious how many other universities have computers dedicated > solely to grants submission activities? It seems to me that > expecting someone to have a computer with no version of Adobe than > Adobe Reader 8.1.1 is unrealistic. Our office use Adobe Professional > 6.0 and could easily upgrade to Adobe Professional 8.0, but we do > need the capacity to edit various PDF documents, create forms, and > other such actions on the same computer that is used for grants > submissions... > > Are we the only ones that have multiple uses for Adobe PDF products > on our computers? > > Priscilla J. Kimboko, Ph.D. > Dean of Graduate Studies & Grants Administration > Grand Valley State University > 336 C DeVos > 401 W. Fulton > Grand Rapids, MI 49504 > 616-331-7105 Office > 616-331-7265 Direct line > 616-331-7317 FAX > xxxxxx@gvsu.edu > www.gvsu.edu/gsga > www.gvsu.edu/research_dev > www.gvsu.edu/ncaselfstudy > > Change makes all things possible. Lao-Tzu > >>>> > > From: Bob Beattie <xxxxxx@UMICH.EDU> > To:<xxxxxx@hrinet.org> > Date: 1/24/2008 4:21 PM > Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Grants.gov Adobe forms questions > In all of my comments I did not refer to the Grants.gov Help Desk; > but to the Grants.gov Washington staff, and what they publish on > their website and state in public meetings and webcasts. > > Everything presented refers to ADOBE READER 8.1.1. Is this not, > now, sufficient guidance? > Note that the requirement for using ADOBE READER 8.1.1 and not 7.0.1 > was released just last Friday > http://www.grants.gov/aboutgrants/program_status_archive.jsp > > Concerning Steve's excellent points. > The Federal Demonstration Partnership encourages IT staff to attend > its meetings. Each member has a Faculty, a Grants Office > administrator and an IT "slot." There is is an eRA Standing > Committee which arranges meetings for the IT staff, and others, who > wish to attend. Only 90 some schools are members of FDP, and not all > send an IT/eRA person. > > Moreover, while there are sessions at Regional and National SRA/NCURA > meeting on eRA topics, many schools do not send anyone. These > meetings are expensive. Regional meetings are, however, often > nearby. The NCURA Western meeting is in Portland. > > Grants.gov, at least, has a free webcast every quarter. This > listserv gives an opportunity for information exchange. The NCURA > eRA Neighborhood is another venue for discussion (but I think it > requires membership in NCURA). Is there a similar SRA function? > > I would hope that Grants Offices that are lucky enough to have their > own IT staff, do support them and keep them in the "loop." I find > that often the problems come when dealing with IT staff at a higher > level, who have not the time to understand the difficulties of modern > electronic Grants management. > > Bob > xxxxxx@umich.edu > > > > > On Jan 24, 2008, at 3:29 PM, Dimmitt, Robert J wrote: > > In the email below regarding believing IT staff or believing grants.gov > staff, I have some concern. When the adobe forms first came out and > then opened up to 8.1.1, I emailed, and called, the grants.gov help desk > to ask the following questions: > > 1) In one instance, I asked if adobe acrobat professional was supported > as well as Reader. Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of an email > response because they emailed me back asking for me to call them. > However, they gave me a case number (which is available if anyone needs > it) saying that, in fact, acrobat professional was able to be used and > was not "advertised" because it was not a free software like reader is. > At the end of my conversation, I specifically verified that if someone > does have a version of acrobat professional 8.1.1 or 7.0.9, then they > would be ok and not need to go through reader. The answer was YES. > > 2) When 8.1.1 came out, I had another conversation with the grants.gov > help desk (unfortunately no email trail on this one or a case number, so > you just have to take my word on it). The conversation focused on if a > package using 8.1.1 could be submitted with a 7.0.9 version and vice > versa. Again, the response was YES. > > Now, I want to clarify that we have only submitted a handful of adobe > packages to date and have not had any problems. However, I am not sure > where to go now or what to do. Our IT staff have put what we have asked > for on our machines and we are in a position to submit proposals > according to the instructions/guidance we were given. If, however, we > are being told that that either using acrobat, or a reader version other > than the one it was created in, will cause errors, this is a problem. > > If at all possible, can someone please provide some guidance? > > Rob > > ------------------------ > Rob Dimmitt > Assistant Director, Pre-Award > Sponsored Program Services > Purdue University > 302 Wood Street > West Lafayette, IN 47907-2108 > Phone: (765) 496-9647 Fax: (765) 494-1360 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On > Behalf Of Shapiro, Steve > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 2:38 PM > To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org > Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Grants.gov Adobe forms questions > > This is a prime reason why IT staff should be involved in the day-to-day > operations of your institution's SRO. > > Providing IT support to an SRO office is a very specialized endeavor. > There are many quirks, special language and abbreviations, and specific > knowledge that an IT professional must have in order to provide the > staff with accurate information and assistance. When confronted with a > new situation, we need that background in order to know where to go to > find the solution that you need to continue your work. > > Excuse me for a second while I get up on my soapbox: > > IT professionals should get more recognition, sessions and information > at conferences and online education. We form the backbone of everything > you do. The activity of an SRO office would come to a screaming halt if > the computer hardware, infrastructure or application software were to > fail. We can do a much better job supporting you if you acknowledge us > and include us in your plans. > > Institutions should encourage their IT professionals to attend National > and Regional meetings. National and Regional meetings should have tracks > that empower and educate IT professionals to excel in their work with > the SRO. > > We have many capable IT professionals working in SROs around the country > who can be tapped to lead these endeavors, with the goal of grooming a > future generation of SRO IT support professionals. Just as SPAs have to > be grown and groomed, so must the support staff. > > End of Soap box. > > Steve Shapiro > Technical Group Manager > University of Oregon > > > On 1/22/08, xxxxxx@umich.edu <xxxxxx@umich.edu> wrote: >> This is what I am telling our campus. >> >> "Concerning what you need to process grants, you can believe your IT >> Support staff or you can believe Grants.gov staff. The Grants.gov >> staff say to use ADOBE READER 8.1.1 to download, open, fill in and >> submit grant applications." >> >> In so far as federal grant applications are concerned, I suspect most >> IT Support staff are, in most cases, under-informed. They are well >> meaning people who think they are doing what is in the best interest > of >> those whom they support. I am sorry if I sound harsh here, I have >> been, shall we say, politely, "discussing" this issue with a number of > >> well meaning people on our campus. I would like to think, in grants >> management, our IT colleagues will carry out the necessary support >> role, once the grants people tell them what is needed. >> >> This is turning out to be painful for everyone. I hope General >> Dynamics had planned for a better outcome than they have gotten when >> they sold Grants.gov on using Adobe, a program over which they have no > >> control, and which is much more complicated, for a University, than >> they could have anticipated. >> >> Back to IT. No matter what those folks say, you need to use ADOBE >> READER 8.1.1. You cannot use Professional and believe, as some IT >> people have told me, it will work "just like Reader." If you believe >> that, then move your submission deadline back a few days to compensate > >> for all the invalid applications. I know that most IT managers must >> centrally control what goes on peoples' computers. This can be at a >> department or even an institutional level. I suspect this did not go >> into the General Dynamics calculation for success. They probably >> assumed everyone just installed whatever was wanted, whenever it was >> convenient. So cause for more pain. >> >> The proverbial "bottom line" is that you should make ADOBE READER > 8.1.1 >> your browser default program to open all .pdf files from the internet. > >> You can still use other Adobe programs to make .pdf attachment files. >> The other Adobe programs will still work in conjunction with Reader. >> Be careful, however, when you open up Professional as it will ask you >> to make it your browser default. Just say no. >> >> The newest statement from Grants.gov staff, who are trying to be as >> helpful as possible as they are caught in the middle of all this, is >> that you should not use both Reader 7.0.9 and 8.1.1 on the same file > or >> you will get even more problems. Thus I am, as well, asking our > campus >> to use only ADOBE READER 8.1.1. >> >> I hope this long explanation sheds some light on this as Suzan > requested. >> >> Bob >> ____________________________ >> Robert Beattie UMich Grants.gov Liaison Managing Project >> Representative for eRA Division of Research Development and >> Administration University of Michigan 734 936-1283 xxxxxx@umich.edu >> >> >> >> Quoting Suzan G Lund <xxxxxx@UNLNOTES.UNL.EDU>: >> >>> Does anyone out there know how having the Adobe Acrobat Professional >>> (version 8.1.1) affects the use of the new forms packages? We've > only had >>> limited exposure to the forms packages thus far and are not clear if > using >>> Acrobat Professional, which our office has, creates/solves any > problems. >>> We're only hearing about the use of Reader 8.1.1. Even our IT guys > aren't >>> sure. Any light you can shed would be helpful. Thanks. >>> >>> Suzan G. Lund, CRA >>> Associate Director >>> Sponsored Programs >>> University of Nebraska-Lincoln >>> 312 N. 14th St., Alexander West >>> Lincoln, NE 68588-0430 >>> Ph: 402-472-1930 Fax: 402-472-9323 >>> email: xxxxxx@unl.edu >>> >>> Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can > change >>> the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret > Mead >>> >>> >>> > ====================================================================== >>> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including >>> subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available >>> via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv > Lists") >>> > ====================================================================== >>> >> >> >> ====================================================================== >> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including >> subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available >> via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") >> ====================================================================== >> > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via > our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via > our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential or sensitive information which is, or may be, legally privileged or otherwise protected by law from further disclosure. 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