I totally agree with Charlie's comment about "us" not being the
stakeholders. I said as much to my boss during the webinar today. (I
hate words like webinar)
I, however, liked the old moving back and forth style. Sometimes I
start a proposal, finish a form or two and don't get back to it again
for days (weeks?). With the old setup, I could tell immediately where I
left off; if was on the "completed" side, I was done. If not, then, well
... not. Also, we'd sometimes have multiple administrators in the file.
I knew when my budgetary cohorts were done because the budget forms
would magically be in the completed box. It seems like the new setup
will require me to open and actually use my eyes and brain and memory to
check and see what I had done before and what I hadn't. I do agree that
with the new interface, even having left/right sides seems useless, if
you can't work on them when they're on the left side.
Hollie
-----Original Message-----
From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On
Behalf Of Charlie Hathaway
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 4:48 PM
To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Deleting forms in the new Adobe version
I think the average "stakeholder" on this list is not the average
stakeholder being targeted by these web casts. Hasn't one of the major
themes in this whole Gg eRA deal been the democratization of federal
grant seeking? This means that the government wants every tiny business
entity to feel just as welcome as the mega-university. And with General
Dynamics taking over in mid-stream, I'm sure they are concerned about
credibility and maintaining the base level of performance. Thus, all
this promotional stuff ("look how many applications we've had") and
emphasis on keeping things simple..i.e. pretty much the same as before.
As for the corporate feel and sound to the whole thing (The "No" answer
to the error flag disabling question took about a minute)!!?? I still
don't understand what that "suite of products" stuff was all about but
it probably sounded good to people in companies who are used to sitting
through empty PowerPoint wizardry.
CH
At 05:12 PM 7/19/2007, you wrote:
>Now I see the situation. That "delete" button was once explained to
>me as a way to delete the entries in the form, like the "reset"
>button in the budget forms. I tried that once but after I moved the
>form to the left, and saved and brought it back to the right, all the
>data were still there.
>
>Now I think, like Jennifer, "delete" just means take it out of the
>submission set. Not so useful for Mandatory forms, but good if you
>accidently put an unwanted Optional form in the right side box.
>
>The more important issue to raise is why have the silly moving back
>and forth and "open form button."
>
>In the PureEdge - IBM Forms viewer, you work on the forms while they
>are in the left box and then move them to the right when you are
>done. Is this because the programmers thought we users could not
>remember when we finished?
>
>In the Webcast, someone said they were keeping the look and feel of
>the IBM Viewer -- as if we really wanted that as opposed to a better
>look and feel. But they have not kept that look and feel by changing
>the previous strange operation to another, even stranger, one.
>
>Cannot they just show us all the forms in a list, let us open them,
>fill them out and leave it at that. Why all the backing and forthing?
>
>
>
>Bob
>xxxxxx@umich.edu
>
>
>
>
>On Jul 19, 2007, at 4:37 PM, Toll, Jennifer wrote:
>
>This isn't as catastrophic as it might seem. Once the form has been
>"deleted" if you click in document box, you will see the form
>reappear. It can then be moved to the submission box and will again
>disappear, but if you click in the box it will reappear and can be
>opened and used normally.
>
>Looks like a bug. Also, I suspect what they are getting at by saying
>"move form to delete" is that you are deleting it from the submission
>package.
>
>From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On
>Behalf Of Tammy Custer
>Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:53 PM
>To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Sample Adobe Form available
>
>Bob - I am surprised you didn't say anything about the Move Form to
>Delete feature - which has an arrow under it giving you the
>impression it is moving it back to the left box but instead really
>deletes the form. Why is there even an option to delete a form????
>
>Robert Beattie wrote:
>>As part of the materials for the Grants.gov webcast today, there is
>>a sample 424R&R face page available for download
>>http://www.grants.gov/resources/stakeholder_communications.jsp
>>
>>Now there is a chance to review this. Open with various versions
>>of Adobe. Fill it out. Note various aspects of it.
>>
>>1. Put your cursor into a yellow field and then tab or otherwise
>>move it out. You get a big pop up box telling you its a required
>>field. I find this very very annoying. Anyone else think this is
>>a feature we can do without?
>>
>>2. How to open a form. No double click like other 21st century
>>programs, not even highlight and click open form on left. First
>>you must move it to the right, and then highlight and click open
>>form? Why move to open. By the way, when there are a number of
>>forms on the left, you can move them in any order unlike the
>>PureEdge where they stayed in the original order when moved. I
>>wonder if NIH will have a problem putting forms back into order.
>>
>>3. Print? Add an attachment, then try to print, do you get the
>>attachment printed? If not (I do not get it), then I hope everyone
>>will write a message in to the webcast asking for a full print
>>option. If the system is to meet our expectations, then it must do
>>this.
>>
>>4. One good thing, is it just on Macs? Once I fill in a field,
>>the next time I enter that field, with a new application, the
>>previous entry shows in a pull down list. So once I enter the
>>Organization name on one application, it is just a matter of
>>clicking in the field to get it next time. Try this. Save a blank
>>form, enter something in a required field, save. Then open up a
>>new from and see if that info is available in that field.
>>
>>5. Second good thing. Once you move all the forms to the right
>>box, you can use the page slider on the right to move up and down
>>through all the pages of all forms. Almost as good as double
>>clicking.
>>
>>
>>Just a few things to get you started looking at a form.
>>
>>Bob
>>xxxxxx@umich.edu
>>
>>
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>
>-- Tammy J. Custer Grant and Contract Officer/eRA Specialist
>Sponsored Program Services-Agreements Cornell University 120 Day Hall
>Ithaca, NY 14853-2801 607-255-5066 (phone) 607-255-5058 (fax)
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subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
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subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
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