I suggest that whenever possible, known PI effort that you do not want to be auditable as Voluntary Committed Cost Share be described in qualitative rather than quantitative terms in the proposal, with the statement "this part of the research will be performed as Departmental Research". That gets you off the hooks of meeting a quantitative commitment and of reducing F&A rates, but does meet the "sales document" aspect of the proposal in describing and assuring performance of work that is off budget but desired by peer reviewers. Chuck At 09:39 AM 2/10/2006, you wrote: >This seems like a good time to jump into the discussion with a >couple of nagging thoughts. > >(1) Recipents of federally supported grants are charged with >accurately reporting the costs of research projects. From the award >notice, we know that a certain federally funded project supports 2 >months of PI salary for summer work and nothing during the Academic >Year. We should also know that the PI is assigned the equivalent of >one or more courses (say 25% time each) during each semester of the >Academic Year to conduct research. Since the grant pays the bills >for travel, lab techs, supplies, publication and other costs >occuring the AY, shouldn't that confirm that some PI research time >is being devoted to this project during the AY. Whether the award's >required cost share line is zero or not, wouldn't accurate reporting >of costs would require including cost sharing? Shouldn't accurate >Time and Effort reporting reflect the contributed AY time? What do >you call reporting the costs of this AY effort in some other cost >pool so as to increase your F&A research rate? Dispite National >Science Board policy, isn't NSF in effect requiring cost sharing by >generally refusing to support Academic Year PI salary? > >(2) The effect of Cost Sharing on the F&A rate eventially boils >down to the fraction (indirect cost base/ total research costs) and >looks at the obvious increase in the denominator by adding cost >sharing. What is the impact on the numerator? If space and >equipment are now used for funded research projects that were used >for something else before, doesn't that increase the numerator? >Seems to me that the PI's lab which could only be included in the >research base only for 2 months (summer funding in the example >above) and could now be at least partially included for 9 additional >months would add to the numerator. Mathematically the fraction will >increase only when this additional inclusion is equal to or larger >than the direct cost share, so perhaps cost sharing makes monetary >sense for scientific labs with expensive equipment but not for >inexpensive education ones. > >Wil > >###################################################### >Bill, > >Personally, I don't think the Dept. of Ed. is a good example as a >basis >for your practice on cost sharing! The program managers that I've > >worked with at Education are overwhelmed serving the role of >program >manager and administrator. > >I think if you would quantify contributions by the department or a > >center in the budget notes of any other agency, you would run the >risk >of a grants officer or an auditor picking up on it and requiring >that it >be counted as voluntary cost share. > >IMHO, > >Ruth Tallman > >Bill Campbell wrote: > > > Carolyn, I quantify them if I possibly can. A program officer at >ED > > (or maybe USDA, can't remember for sure) told me once that if a >match > > doesn't show up on the cover sheet or budget form, they don't pay >any > > attention to it. So I've been putting numbers in the narratives >ever > > since. > > > > And I agree completely, budgets should be reasonable and the >project > > has to deliver. If the matches aren't legitimate, I don't >include > > them anywhere. > > > > Regards, Bill > > > >Bill Campbell > >Director, Grants & Research > >University of Wisconsin-River Falls > >410 S. 3rd St. > >River Falls, WI 54022 > >715/425-3195 > >FAX 715/425-0649 > > > > > > > > > > Carolyn Elliott-Farino wrote: > > > >> Bill, > >> > >> But do you quantify these resources that you include in the >project > >> narrative and budget narrative? It's one thing to say that "the > > >> department will contribute supplies," quite another to say "The > > >> department will contribute $5000 in supplies." My understanding >is > >> that if the resources you describe are quantified at all, they >become > >> voluntary cost share. I think you can show institutional >commitment > >> without quantifying the amount. So if you don't quantify, I >guess I'd > >> agree with you. If you do quantify, I'm not sure. > >> > >> Whatever, budgets should be reasonable, and projects should give >some > >> bang for the buck, right? > >> > >> >>> xxxxxx@UWRF.EDU 2/9/2006 12:36:06 PM >>> > >> RESADMers-- > >> > >> Normally, I agree with Spanky--but not on this issue. I've >served as > >> a reader for Dept of Education on many occasions, and as a >reader I'm > >> impressed when a proposal narrative or letter of commitment >describes > >> the resources the institution is committing to a project. And >yes, > >> my impressions are reflected in my scoresheet. So when I write > > >> proposals for ED, I always describe the resources we will use >for > >> match in the narrative. And I include them in the budget >narrative > >> as well. BUT--I do NOT include matching funds on the official >budget > >> forms or list them on the cover sheet, unless of course a match >is > >> required. If I put matching funds on the official budget form >and > >> cover sheet, we're accountable for them, we'll have to report >time & > >> effort, etc. > >> > >> I follow that strategy with other agencies as well, especially >USDA. > >> Not so much with NSF, not at all with NIH. > >> > >> Regards, Bill > >> > >>Bill Campbell > >>Director, Grants & Research > >>University of Wisconsin-River Falls > >>410 S. 3rd St. > >>River Falls, WI 54022 > >>715/425-3195 > >>FAX 715/425-0649 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Mike McCallister wrote: > >> > >>> Fer sure this is a "just say no" thing. Never, ever provide > >>> unrequired match. It's a waste of scarce resources. That's >the kin > >>> do fcrapola you hear from rookies. And that's just what I tell >them. > >>> > >>> Spanky > >>> > >>> At 03:25 PM 2/8/2006, you wrote: > >>> > >>>> That is an urban myth. It is the quality of the proposal and >the > >>>> proposer, not any cheap-jack price, that results in an award. >You > >>>> cannot buy an award, and if it would be funded anyway, why > >>>> subsidize the project; there are better ways to spend your >money. > >>>> Mandatory cost sharing excepted, of course. > >>>> > >>>> Chuck > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> At 01:00 PM 2/8/2006, you wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Good afternoon- > >>>>> > >>>>> I have PI's who are using the "if I cost share I have a >better > >>>>> chance of getting funded" justification for cost share. > >>>>> > >>>>> Is there any communique from NIH that dispels that idea? > >>>>> > >>>>> Thx! > >>>>> > >>>>> Camilla > >>>>> > >>>>> *Camilla Curnow* > >>>>> Director of Research Administration > >>>>> Internal Medicine > >>>>> Box 801020 > >>>>> 243-7186 > >>>>> 243-0399 Fax > >>>>> > >>>>> >====================================================================== > > >>>>> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, >including > >>>>> subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are > >>>>> available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org > >>>>> <http://www.hrinet.org/> (click on "Listserv Lists") > >>>>> >====================================================================== > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Herbert "Chuck" Chermside, CRA > >>>> Director Emeritus, VCU Sponsored Programs > >>>> Executive Director, Research Administrators Certification >Council > >>>> 1915 Robindale Rd. > >>>> Richmond, VA 23235-3931 > >>>> 804-320-5502 > >>>> xxxxxx@verizon.net > >>>> > >>>> >====================================================================== > > >>>> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, >including > >>>> subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are > >>>> available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org > >>>> <http://www.hrinet.org/> (click on "Listserv Lists") > >>>> >====================================================================== > > > >=============================== >Wil Emmert, CRA >Research Administration >Western Michigan University >2303 Friedmann Hall >1903 West Michigan Avenue >Kalamazoo, MI 49008-5340 >269-387-1576 FAX: 269-387-3999 >e-mail: xxxxxx@wmich.edu >=============================== >Write the bad things that are done to you in the sand, > but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of >marble. >-Arabian adage > > >====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") >====================================================================== Herbert "Chuck" Chermside, CRA Executive Director, Research Administrators Certification Council PO BOX 72641, Towne Center Station Richmond, VA 23235-8018 804-543-3002 xxxxxx@verizon.net http://www.cra-cert.org/ ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ======================================================================
