I think my friends at GT have "called me out" :-) ________________________________ From: Research Administration List on behalf of Terry Stout Sent: Tue 12/6/2005 6:02 AM To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] CRA - Fact or Urban Legend You are special JohnBoy, not because you have a CRA but because of the cookies you make! BTW, we're still waiting in the mailroom for those you've promised on multiple occasions. Terry L. Stout Technology Licensing Associate Office of Technology Licensing Georgia Tech Research Corporation Georgia Institute of Technology 505 Tenth Street Atlanta, Georgia 30032-0415 Phone: (404) 385-2174 FAX: (404) 894-9728 -----Original Message----- From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG] On Behalf Of John Sites Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 8:01 PM To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] CRA - Fact or Urban Legend All - I think this discussion has been very interesting - having a CRA, I'm probably a little partial. However, I agree with Sandra, Spanky and others that while it may not serve as a guarantee, it does demonstrate a certain level of education, experience, professional development and skills as unique as the work we do. I had a college degree and 10 years of RA specific experience when I sat for the exam - and still sweated through most of the 250 questions! The CRA designation may not be today, what we hope it will be someday, but it can serve as a great indicator during the identification of potential staff - especially when used as an integral part of the overall hiring process. It can also serve to identify staff who demonstrate the desire to grow ad excel. We are unique - a little crazy at times, but unique. That's what makes what we do so special. I wouldn't have it any other way :-) John D. Sites, Jr., CRA Utah State University ________________________________ From: Research Administration List on behalf of Sandra Nordahl Sent: Mon 12/5/2005 3:21 PM To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] CRA - Fact or Urban Legend Jennifer and others...I wrote to Pam off line, but I will copy that text and include it below. Others can let me know if I am off base on the sitting for the exam topic...I believe that at the inception, individuals that had a substantial amount of years in the industry (I am not sure what substantial was, but I missed the mark by a year or two and had been in the profession for quite sometime...(now I am really dating myself) were able to be "grandfathered in" and did not need to sit for the exam. I recently took the exam and earned my CRA...it is not a slam dunk exam by any means. I do think that it measures whether or not someone has a well rounded knowledge of the profession. Certainly the CRA has not been "around" as long as the CPA, but I think it is a valid tool for measuring knowledge. Earlier message to Pam: Pam, I say that our profession is ever evolving. I understand why some organizations would prefer to hire someone that has achieved the CRA status...primarily because they should have some concepts/knowledge of the field and would not be a novice. I have found that it is really difficult to hire individuals regardless of whether they have a CRA, MS, Ph.D, CPA, etc. People often interview well, but it's the work ethic and ability to learn that are crucial. We can always teach the content, but character is more important to me. I have had people that interviewed exceptionally well, but when it came down to producing, it became an entirely different story. Then I have hired individuals that weren't the best at interviewing, but became star performers. It really is a bit of a lottery. Sandra Sandra M. Nordahl, CRA Manager, Sponsored Research Administration San Diego State University Research Foundation 5250 Campanile Drive San Diego, CA 92182-1934 619.594.4172 (voice) 619.582.9164 (fax) e-mail: xxxxxx@foundation.sdsu.edu -----Original Message----- From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG] On Behalf Of Jennifer Shambrook Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 1:11 PM To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] CRA - Fact or Urban Legend As opposed to the CPA which in my state requires college transcripts showing at least 120 semester hours of awarded college credit and a certain number of those hours being in accounting for initial testing. I still think the CRA is a good thing... I'm also still waiting for an answer to the question of whether there are folks out there TODAY that have a CRA that never sat for the exam. Where's Chuck? >>> xxxxxx@CENTRAL.UH.EDU 12/05/05 04:02PM >>> I also took the exam. In order to sit for the exam without having a bachelor's degree, you must have additional years of experience. Here are the qualifications to sit for the exam, from the Research Administrators Certification Council website: Qualifications/Credentials: 1. Experience. Candidates applying to sit for the Certified Research Administrator's Examination must possess a Bachelor's degree and three (3) years of substantial involvement in research or sponsored programs administration either in a sponsoring or recipient organization or the equivalent in a self-funded organization. Exceptions MAY be granted upon petition and meeting the minimum experience and education requirements of an Associate's Degree and six (6) years of experience OR eight (8) years of substantial experience in the sponsored programs/research administration field. Regards, Deborah Deborah Anne Brougher, CRA College Research Administrator College of Pharmacy Science & Research Bldg 2 Room 453A 4800 Calhoun Houston, TX 77204-5037 Phone 713/743-1418 Fax 713/743-1232 e-mail address xxxxxx@uh.edu -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Shambrook [mailto:xxxxxx@MUSC.EDU] Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:37 PM To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] CRA - Fact or Urban Legend I would be interested in hearing answers to Dr. Miller's other questions and comments concerning the credential. I've recommended to people that don't have bachelor's degrees, and no plans to obtain them, to get the CRA as a sign that they can set and achieve a professional development goal in lieu of a degree. In my own hiring practices, I would count a CRA and 5 years experience as almost equivalent to a Bachelors Degree when comparing candidates. I work in an academic environment, though, and a certification that does not require a degree will always be looked askance upon by the academic investigators we serve. Personally, I am generally supportive of CRAs as long as the person took the exam to get it. It's my understanding that in the beginning, one could obtain a CRA based upon longevity in the profession, and renew from attending sessions at SRA or NCURA without taking an exam. Can anyone tell me if this fact or urban legend? If it is fact: Has everyone that holds the CRA designation today taken the exam? I have an inquiring mind and would like to know. -Jennifer Jennifer Morgan Shambrook, MHA Associate Chair for Research Administration Co-Director Division of Public Psychiatry Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science Medical University of South Carolina 67 President Street, Suite 504 Charleston, South Carolina 29425 voice: 843-792-0191 fax: 843-792-0048 email: xxxxxx@musc.edu >>> xxxxxx@UAF.EDU 12/05/05 02:17PM >>> Hi Pam, the same goes for our announcement I recently posted. The reasons we put it as a requirement are for the same reasons Bill listed, and I think they are very good ones. Thanks, Andrew Bill Schulze wrote: > Hi, Pam: > > I have a feeling you are referring to our announcement, although I > believe others do that as well... > > You make some good philosophical points, however our motive is more > practical than philosophical. Including a certification requirement in > the job description for Senior Research Administrator has allowed us > to obtain HR approval of a professional position at a competitive > salary level. > > We do not use the CRA as a screening instrument, or we would require > it up front. I feel many will agree that the CRA is an important > credential for various reasons, but by no means do I feel it should be > considered the quintessential measure of knowledge or competency > within the profession. > > We expect our Senior Research Administrators to be experienced and > highly skilled research administrators. Our evaluations of candidates > during the interview process are based on their knowledge of the field > and demonstrated skills, and since the 4 professionals currently in > our office have over 60 years of combined experience in Research > Administration, we have little trouble with these assessments. > > Bill > > PS: If anyone is interested in a good job with great people, please > apply... We're looking for really good research administrators, and if > you don't already have the CRA, don't worry about it - we'll give you > 3 years and also pay for it... > > **************************************** > William E. Schulze, EdD > Director of Sponsored Programs > University of Nevada, Las Vegas > Phone (702) 895-1357 > Fax (702) 895-0986 > xxxxxx@ccmail.nevada.edu > **************************************** > > Inactive hide details for Pamela Miller <xxxxxx@USFCA.EDU>Pamela > Miller <xxxxxx@USFCA.EDU> > > > > > > *Pamela Miller <xxxxxx@USFCA.EDU>* > Sent by: Research Administration List > <xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG> > > 12/05/2005 09:35 AM > Please respond to Research Administration > Discussion List > > > > To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG > cc: > Subject: [RESADM-L] CRA as a screening instrument > > > > > This is something that has been bothering me, and I have decided to > share my concerns via this forum: I recently noticed a research > administration position announcement that required that persons > applying for the job have CRA status or be willing to obtain this > designation within a few years of employment. In my opinion, requiring > research administrators obtain a Certified Research Administrator > (CRA) designation to obtain and maintain employment is very premature. > > The exam for the CRA tests an examinee's knowledge of particular body > of knowledge and indicates that a high enough score on the test along > with a certain number of years on the job and a bachelor's degree is > sufficient for the individual to be "certified" as a research or > grants administrator. The unasked questions in this transaction are: > Who decides what the fundamental body of knowledge is in research > administration? The exam may indeed have captured the incredible > diversity of this ever changing field, but how do we know? Is there an > objective credentialing body behind the CRA exam, such as the > Committee on Accreditation (CoA) which oversees the accreditation of > programs and exams in professional psychology for the American > Psychological Association (APA)? Is there anything more rigorous than > anecdotal evidence to support the validity of the exam? > > Assuming the CRA exam does capture all the fundamentals of research > administration, are the questions good questions, i.e., do the > questions really tap the individual's true understanding of this body > of knowledge? No test is perfect, and there are numerous factors that > affect the reliability of a test, e.g., the length of the test, the > way the items are constructed, and even the directions for taking the > test. Reliability is an essential characteristic of a good test, > because if a test doesn't measure consistently (reliably), then one > can not know if the scores resulting from a particular administration > are due to the examinee's achievement or random error. The CRA web > site does not report test validity or reliability information, and > these are important things to know before making someone's job > dependent upon having or getting a CRA! > > Research administrators work hard, often without anyone noticing or > appreciating the work being done. It therefore is very tempting to try > and place research administration at the same table with other valued > professions. However, if one looks at what other professions have done > and are doing to achieve this respected status, it is clear that we in > research administration have a long way to go. The CRA may be an > important first step, but in my opinion it is unwise to think that we > have reached the end of the journey. > > Pamela F. Miller, Ph.D. > Director, Office of Sponsored Projects The University of San Francisco > 2130 Fulton Street San Francisco, CA 94117-1080 TEL 415-422-5368 FAX > 415-422-6222 EMAIL xxxxxx@usfca.edu_ <mailto:xxxxxx@usfca.edu> > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ======================================================================
