Re: Lead Time for Your OSP? Charlie Hathaway 23 Sep 2005 13:47 EST
Isn't it just "good cop" vs "bad cop"? Or, as Jennifer suggests, subservient saintly cop? "Without exception, All suffering comes from wanting happiness for yourself; Perfect buddhas are born from wishing to benefit others. Thus, truly exchanging your own happiness For the suffering of others Is the practice of a bodhisattva." http://c-level.com/bodhi/ CH At 01:52 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: >Charlie may be a voice of reason at his institution, but not at mine. I work at a PUI where the local culture did not include grant activity. >I've worked hard to to change that by being as helpful as I can, including being nice to PI's who stop in my office on the way to the post office and say, 'I'm about to submit this grant proposal, would you like to see it?' > >In short, I'm not a cop--if I were, our production would be far lower than it is and I'd be out of a job by now. Does that mean I never say No? Nope, I've rejected last-minute proposals that didn't have the appropriate approvals. (I've also discouraged PI's whose proposals are way off the mark, though I've learned the hard way not to tell them we're not submitting; we won a very large grant once that I was sure had no chance.) My line is always 'I'll do whatever it takes to get sound, competitive proposals out the door.' > >Regards, Bill > >Bill Campbell >Director, Grants & Research >University of Wisconsin-River Falls >410 S. 3rd St. >River Falls, WI 54022 >715/425-3195 >FAX 715/425-0649 > > > >Andrew M. Parkerson-Gray wrote: > >>Thank you for your voice of reason Charlie! >> >>Charlie Hathaway wrote: >> >>>I disagree. Cops exist for a reason. So do we. We generally limit our justification for enforcement of strict internal submission deadlines to 2 reasons. The first, long-term protection of the institution, is a great reason but under-appreciated by researchers. >>>The second, allowing research administrators to maintain their sanity, is an OK reason but comes off as whining. >>> >>>But there is a third reason that is necessary to justify enforcement: that there is a direct relationship between lead time and proposal success. Unfortunately, no one has attempted to prove that. [And of course it might not be true despite the dreams of grantsmanship teachers everywhere.] Anyone care to track internal lead-times and NIH priority scores for a year or two? If done right, it's a JAMA paper for sure. >>> >>>Charlie >>> >>> >>>At 04:59 PM 9/22/2005, you wrote: >>> >>>>As my friend Phil says, "I love deadlines, I like the sound they make as they fly by." If you are enforcing ANYTHING you aren't doing your job. We aren't cops. >>>> >>>>Spanky >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>At 03:11 PM 9/22/2005, you wrote: >>>> >>>>>As far as I can determine NOBODY NOWHERE is successful in enforcing grant submission deadlines incorporating any kind of lead time. It is one thing to ask for certain lead times, and another thing entirely to require it and enforce compliance. I put a question around a year ago (or so) to this discussion list about enforcing lead times. I'd be happy to send a copy of replies I received to anyone who asks. >>>>> >>>>>John McCann, M.P.A., Ph.D. >>>>>Academic Grants Manager >>>>>The Evergreen State College >>>>>Olympia, WA 98505 >>>>>Phone 360-867-6045 >>>>>Fax 360-867-6745 >>>>>E-Mail xxxxxx@evergreen.edu >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Research Administration List [ >>>>> mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG]On <mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG%5DOn> >>>>> Behalf Of Mike McCallister Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 11:18 AM To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Lead Time for Your OSP? >>>>> >>>>> We laugh at both the idea of a requirement and the wild >>>>> possibility that faculty will pay attention to it. I'm pleased >>>>> to get 24 hours, shocked at 36, >>>>> Spanky >>>>> >>>>> At 12:48 PM 9/22/2005, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>> This is just an informal poll to see how much lead time >>>>>> your sponsored programs office requires to review a >>>>>> proposal. We ask for 5 business days to allow for the >>>>>> proposal load, corrections, major problems, etc. We also >>>>>> want the final draft, not rough drafts unless we had >>>>>> arranged to help review and edit those ahead of time. What >>>>>> does your OSP do? >>>>>> Thanks, Andrew >>>>>> ======================================== Andrew M. Parkerson-Gray, CRA Senior Pre-Award Administrator >>>>>>UAF Office of Sponsored Programs 909 N. Koyukuk Drive / P.O. Box 757270 West Ridge Research Building, Suite 212F Fairbanks, AK 99775-7270 >>>>>> Phone: (907) 474-1851 Fax: (907) 474-5444 E-mail: xxxxxx@uaf.edu Web: >>>>>>http://www.uaf.edu/osp/ >>>>>>======================================== >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>====================================================================== >>>>>> >>>>>> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, >>>>>> including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are >>>>>> available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org >>>>>> <http://www.hrinet.org/> (click on "Listserv Lists") >>>>>>====================================================================== >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mike McCallister, Ph.D. Office of Research and Sponsored Programs University of Arkansas at Little Rock 2801 South University Little Rock, AR 72204-1099 >>>>> (o) 501-569-8474 The work itself, the >>>>> pleasure of finding a field (c) 501-590-5609 for my peculiar powers, is >>>>> my highest reward. (f) >>>>>501-371-7614 Sherlock Holmes in Arthur Conan Doyle's The Sign of Four >>>>>http://www.ualr.edu/orsp/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>====================================================================== >>>>> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including >>>>> subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are >>>>> available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org >>>>> <http://www.hrinet.org/> (click on "Listserv Lists") >>>>> >>>>>====================================================================== >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org <http://www.hrinet.org/> (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Mike McCallister, Ph.D. >>>>Office of Research and Sponsored Programs >>>>University of Arkansas at Little Rock >>>>2801 South University >>>>Little Rock, AR 72204-1099 >>>> >>>>(o) 501-569-8474 The work itself, the pleasure of finding a field >>>>(c) 501-590-5609 for my peculiar powers, is my highest reward. (f) >>>>501-371-7614 Sherlock Holmes in Arthur Conan Doyle's /The Sign of Fou//r >>>>/ http://www.ualr.edu/orsp/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org <http://www.hrinet.org/> (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== >>> >>> >>> >>>====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== > > >====================================================================== >Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including >subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available >via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") >====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ======================================================================