Re: Roles on research projects Charlie Hathaway 27 Aug 2005 11:37 EST
Yes, I misunderstood. Your original email spoke of "roles on research projects" and "duties". I assumed you were speaking of all duties, including the non-fiscal. And Joe's list seemed way too general. CH Quoting Terri Hall <xxxxxx@ND.EDU>: > Whoa, Charlie...guess I need to clarify. > NOT suggesting we 'outlaw' using "Statistician" or "Data Analyst" > to describe roles in research projects. These descriptions can be > immensely helpful in the narrative and budget but are way too > specific for what I was seeking. I'm going for overall big-picture roles > whether stated within proposal or not...so that everyone is clear on > who can spend and who can't more or less. > > I was looking for a list (if there is one) that provided general > descriptions > of possible roles...and the list would be something like this: > PI - directs project, responsible for overall outcome, main fiscal > responsibility, from our institution only > Co-PI - specific duties on project, may have fiscal responsibility if allowed > by > PI re: > record-keeping, and may have some spending ability, from our > institution > only > Senior/Other Personnel - duties on project, no fiscal responsibility and > cannot > spend > without permisison of PI (or Co-PI when allowed), can be from other > institutions or organizations/industry > Grad student - directed by others on project, some duties, no spending > ability, > from our institution only > Collaborator: develops and spends own budget, works with PI to determine > duties > in joint effort, receives own award, can be from other institutions or > organizations/industry > Subcontract/Subawardeee: develops statement of work with PI, creates own > budget > but is paid by PI institution for work - is part of PI's award - can spend > only > amount provided by PI from sponsor, can be from other institutions or > organizations/industry > etc. > > These descriptions are just off the top of my head and certainly unofficial, > but > I hope it clarifies things. > > The Statistician or Data Analyst would fall in the Senior/Other Personnel > category most likely...which could tell everyone he/she has no spending > ability > on this project .. and again SHOULD be listed as Statistician, etc on > proposal. > > Does that make more sense? This stems from a PI request to include someone > from > another institution on a proposal, but this 'someone' didn't want to have to > run > it through his institution. The question was...if he's not a subaward, what > role > can he play to achieve that? This original question got us thinking then > about > the new initiative to list multiple PI's and what that will do to monitoring > expenditures on the projects. > > Thanks to all for previous responses...and I welcome more in this > discussion. > Terri > > -- > Terri Hall > Associate Director of Sponsored Programs (eRA) > Office of Research*University of Notre Dame > Phn: (574) 631-7378*Fax: (574) 631-6630 > 511 Main Building*Notre Dame, IN*46556 > > > Quoting xxxxxx@aecom.yu.edu: > > > You know, I come from the research side of the mountain where it is felt > that > > competitiveness in seeking extramural funding should be the goal of > research > > administration. It is also generally conceded that there are "rules" that > you > > have to obey so someone doesn't go to jail. > > > > But if some "data dictionary" is going to tell me that on my proposal I > can't > > label Dr. X as a "Statistician" or "Data Analyst" or "Translator" (which > are > > certainly much more useful and descriptive of roles than are "Grad > Student" > > or "Other" ??!!), then I am going to burn that data dictionary. Cmon, are > > you > > really going to sacrifice clarity for strict adherence to some list of > > titles? > > > > CH > > > > Quoting Joseph Bass <xxxxxx@jsb-consulting.com>: > > > > > These are the project roles that were in the original data dictionary > > > Consultant > > > Co-PD/PI > > > Graduate Student > > > Key Person > > > Other > > > Other Professional > > > PD/PI > > > Post Doctoral > > > Post Doctoral Associate > > > Technician > > > Undergraduate Student > > > > > > I have attached a old Key Person page > > > > > > > > > Joe Bass > > > JSB Consulting, LLC > > > Managing Member > > > xxxxxx@JSB-Consulting.com > > > > > > Phone: 301-774-4229 Mobile: 240-305-8056 Fax: 240-220-0654 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xxxxxx@aecom.yu.edu [mailto:xxxxxx@aecom.yu.edu] > > > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 6:15 PM > > > To: xxxxxx@jsb-consulting.com > > > Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Roles on research projects > > > > > > I'd be interested. I just can't imagine tho. To have some bureaucrat > > > question whether a technician is doing technician stuff rather than > > > investigator or > > > administrative4 assistant stuff seems ridiculous. And...my comments > were > > > based on memories of people creating very unconventional sounding roles > on > > > NIH proposals, mostly in social sciences. But i might be wrong. > > > > > > charlie > > > > > > Quoting xxxxxx@jsb-consulting.com: > > > > > > > I think roles and definitions exist. Maybe not in Grants.Gov but the > > > > standard has them. I can send it to you if you want > > > > > > > > Joe Bass > > > > xxxxxx@jsb-consulting.com > > > > > > > > --- Original Message --- > > > > From: Charlie Hathaway <xxxxxx@AECOM.YU.EDU> > > > > Sent: Fri 8/26/2005 3:27 pm > > > > To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG > > > > Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Roles on research projects > > > > > > > > I don't think there is a list of acceptable roles. Other than PI, I > > > > doubt the feds would attempt definitions. Definitions would limit the > > > > ability of researchers to do what they think needs to be done. Who's > > > > to say there could > > > > > > > > never be a "Snake Charmer" or "Massage Therapist" on a grant? > > > > > > > > As for Co-PIs (a meaningless term at present)...I'll bet the new > > > > policy uses > > > > > > > > equal lead investigators at different institutions as a proto-typical > > > > example > > > > > > > > of why true Co-PIs are needed. > > > > > > > > CH > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoting Terri Hall <xxxxxx@ND.EDU>: > > > > > > > > > We have had several discussions about the various roles on research > > > > projects, > > > > > their definitions, and their responsibilities or spending privileges > > > > > on > > > > the > > > > > projects. > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know if these roles have been defined by the federal > > > > government > > > > > for federal projects? Or is this up to the discretion of the sponsor > > > > > or university as to who can serve as what, and the duties/privileges > > > > > each > > > > role > > > > > will have? > > > > > > > > > > For example...if one of our investigators wants to include an > > > > > investigator from another institution on a proposal...that > investigator > > > can serve as a: > > > > > 1. subcontractor/subawardee > > > > > 2. collaborator > > > > > 3. consultant > > > > > 4. senior personnel/key personnel/other significant contributor 5. ? > > > > > other options? > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, we do not currently allow those from other institutions to > > > > > serve > > > > as > > > > > co-PIs on our projects unless it is a sponsor requirement. But now > > > > > there's talk of multiple-PI's on projects...yikes! > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know of a complete list of research personnel allowed on > > > > > federal projects? with definitions of roles and who has spending > > > authority or not? > > > > > > > > > > I couldn't find anything in the RESADM-L archives...or NCURA...or > > > > > SRA regarding this. > > > > > Some university websites provide definitions..but none references a > > > > federal > > > > > source. > > > > > Are there any? > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Terri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terri M. Hall > > > > > Associate Director of Sponsored Programs (eRA) Office of Research * > > > > > University of Notre Dame > > > > > 511 Main Building * Notre Dame, Indiana 46556 > > > > > Phn: (574) 631-7378 Fax: (574) 631-6630 > > > > > http://www.nd.edu/~research/ ~ an FDP institution ~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==================================================================== > > > > > == Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > > > > > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > > > > > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv > > > > > Lists") > > > > > ==================================================================== > > > > > == > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ====================================================================== > > > > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > > > > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > > > > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > > > > ====================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ======================================================================