Swing thy sharpened axe but aim it only at a Ph.D. [in a traditional academic discipline] who does not have a broad knowledge of a general field, who cannot analyze and evaluate many kinds of information, who cannot communicate, and who does not appreciate the pressures that academics are under.  And if you are conducting your search in a science department, be sure not to slaughter any PhD who MANAGES a laboratory.

"I'm Spartacus!"

C. Hathaway

At 11:29 AM 10/17/03 -0500, you wrote:
>Jumping into the fray --
>
>In my opinion, a Ph.D. is no guarantee of a higher salary.
>
>And to grind this axe.....Ph.D. training turns one into a specialist.
>I don't think we need specialists in management positions in research
>administration.  We need generalists; people who have an
>understanding of the many different facets that make up our little
>world.  I think MPA's have an advantage in the generalist environment
>and make good managers (...she said as a graduate of an MPA program).
>I think on the job training is more important to an understanding of
>resadm; but an MPA didn't hurt.
>
>I have noticed (in a completely unscientific review) of many resadm
>positions that the small schools tend to want to hire Ph.D.s but the
>larger schools do not.  I suspect this is because the need for a
>generalist (and a good manager of people and processes) is recognized
>at the larger schools.  Just IMHO, of course.
>
>But in any event, I also feel that salary is more a function of the
>size of the school and the research program/infrastructure than
>anything else.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Rochelle Athey
>University of Texas at Austin
>
>>Finally!!  Someone spoke about compensation....and most schools
>>can't and won't compete on compensation.  Master's degree alone
>>won't warrant significant comp.  PhD's are what justify a school to
>>pay the bigger salaries in research administration....did I just
>>open "Pandora's Box"?
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Kim Caroline [mailto:xxxxxx@EMORY.EDU]
>>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:34 AM
>>To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
>>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Master's Degree in Sponsored Programs
>>
>>
>>But then, of course salaries for positions in Sponsored Programs would
>>have to increase to attract MBAs and others with advanced degrees and it
>>has been my observation (and experience) that most schools are reluctant
>>to do so.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG] On
>>Behalf Of Rhodes, Kris E
>>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 10:06 AM
>>To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
>>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Master's Degree in Sponsored Programs
>>
>>More thoughts on a day when I don't even have time to think....
>>
>>I think academic degrees do represent a general understanding of subject
>>matter, but more than subject matter, academic degrees are measure of
>>one's stick-to-itness and ability to work within a structured
>>environment.  And of course in a university environment surface respect
>>is divvied out based on who-has accomplished "what I have", so PhD's
>>rule; J.D.'s also receive special consideration in our field.  Long-term
>>respect is dependent not upon degrees, but one ability to accurately
>>analyze and respond to situations, with follow through being the final
>>component.
>>
>>And I should have thought a little broader yesterday on standardized
>>degrees, but the JD and the MBA are also provide some of the tools that
>>will assist someone in excelling in this field.
>>
>>When it comes to technical understanding, assessment, and application of
>>topics relevant to research administration, one of THE sharpest and most
>>thorough people I have worked has a Bachelor's degree; this is a person
>>who has completely earned the respect (and at time annoyance) of
>>faculty.  This person has Master degreed staff and JD's under her
>>supervision.
>>
>>Some of the assessment of what degrees does a person have in research
>>administration, has to do with what where the choices a person made
>>along the way.  For example in my case a Ph.D. is in my long range
>>plans, but pursuit of another degree would mean committing less energy
>>to my office and my profession and this is not a choice I want to make
>>at this time, I hope to at some point to have my shop in such an
>>even-keeled state that boredom propels me on to pursuit of the degree.
>>Still the actual battle experience will drive individual competence.
>>
>>I too would like Pattons and Rommels under my command, but Einstein's
>>work was much more efficient ...... I respect the talent individuals
>>bring to the table and talent comes in many different packages.
>>
>>On the Masters in Sponsored Project Administration, there is some
>>question as to whether such a degree would universally generate the same
>>level of respect as a Masters in an established field and would it be a
>>cost effective program for an academic institution.
>>
>>Kris
>>
>>__________________________________________
>>Kris E. Rhodes, MS CRA
>>Associate Director
>>Office of Sponsored Programs
>>University of Kentucky
>>213 Kinkead Hall
>>Lexington, KY 40506
>>Phone:  859-257-4826; Fax 859-323-1060
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Charlie Hathaway [mailto:xxxxxx@AECOM.YU.EDU]
>>Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:17 AM
>>To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
>>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Master's Degree in Sponsored Programs
>>
>>
>>Kris' comments left me thinking that creating a masters level program
>>may sound good, and follow the pattern of numerous disciplines, but may
>>be more feel good than do good.  What are the goals?  Increase the
>>talent pool?  Make research administration work better?  Or...use a
>>degree to attract and retain people?  Use the facade of a degree as yet
>>another substitute for competence?
>>
>>Has the MEd improved teaching?  Have most good journalists gone to
>>journalism school?  Do musicians get master's degrees in performance so
>>they can play better?
>>
>>When grant deadlines roll around, I think I would prefer to have an
>>office with more Pattons and Rommels than Freuds and Einsteins.
>>
>>Charlie Hathaway
>>
>>
>>At 07:05 PM 10/16/03 -0400, you wrote:
>>>Hi Carolyn - I'll be at SRA this year, will I by chance see you there?
>>>
>>>I am unaware of any Master's Degrees that have a significant focus on
>>>sponsored projects administration. Higher education administration is
>>>probably the closest customizable degree to fit the activities
>>>associated with leadership in sponsored projects administration.
>>>Public administration is probably the next best fit.
>>>
>>>SRA has discussed options for the collaborative development of such a
>>>program, but I don't think significant progress has been made on
>>program
>>>creation.   There are training programs to assist individuals in
>>>mastering the skills associated with sponsored projects administration,
>>
>>>SRA has the Department Administrator certification and passage of the
>>>CRA (Certified Research Administrator) exam is one measure of expertise
>>
>>>in the field.  NCURA has the SPA II and FRA session which tend to focus
>>
>>>on advanced topics in the field.  There are also a couple for-profit
>>>organization that also provide training.
>>>
>>>Being a CRA I'm biased, but I think the CRA is probably the best
>>>testament to skill in the field at this time, the next best would be an
>>
>>>individual's experiences.
>>>
>>>Hope all is well in Texas!
>>>
>>>Kris
>>>
>>>__________________________________________
>>>Kris E. Rhodes, MS CRA
>>>Associate Director
>>>Office of Sponsored Programs
>>>University of Kentucky
>>>213 Kinkead Hall
>>>Lexington, KY 40506
>>>Phone:  859-257-4826; Fax 859-323-1060
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Carolyn Pate [mailto:xxxxxx@TXSTATE.EDU]
>>>Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 6:18 PM
>>>To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
>>>Subject: [RESADM-L] Master's Degree in Sponsored Programs
>>>
>>>
>>>I know there has been discussion at SRA regarding the development of a
>>>master's degree program in Sponsored Programs Administration. I've also
>>
>>>heard discussion of developing an emphasis on sponsored programs
>>>administration as part of an already-existing master's program in
>>>Public Administration.  Do any of you know of any such programs
>>>anywhere in the country?  And if so, do you know any of the details?
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>Carolyn Pate, Director
>>>Office of Sponsored Programs
>>>J. C. Kellam Bldg., Suite 489
>>>Texas State University-San Marcos
>>>601 University Drive
>>>San Marcos, TX 78666-4616
>>>512-245-2314
>>>512-245-3847 (fax)
>>>
>>>
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**************************************
Charles B. Hathaway, Ph.D., Director
Office of Grant Support
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
1300 Morris Park Avenue
Bronx, NY 10461-1975
Phone: 718 430-3642     Fax: 718 430-8822
email: xxxxxx@aecom.yu.edu
http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ogs

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