I agree with earlier responses that seemed to differentiate between "necessary and sufficient" conditions. Definitely, a degree is a necessary condition. A degree and relevant experience are sufficient conditions. However, in rare cases, someone may have been extremely successful in certain roles without the benefit of formal education. The question is, will higher education subscribe to this latter model or is it fair to expect that it would? I don't think so! Personally, it continues to be very helpful to have been a tenured business school professor for 12 years of teaching, research and grantsmanship. With seven years of research administration at two very different institutions, I believe my background helps my advocacy role with faculty and administrators. "Michael J. McCue" wrote: > I think you, Marcia, and a few others, have made a very good point. As > contract administrators we are here to serve the faculty. They are our > "customers". Whatever we can do to understand and help our "customers" > will only help us in doing what we do best. > > I came into research administration with no background in it at all. I > came directly from practicing law. As such, I've always viewed our > faculty as customers and do what I can to help them get or retain the > grant. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Michael J. McCue, M.P.A., J.D. > Contract and Grant Administration > Michigan State University > 301 Administration Building > East Lansing, Michigan 48824-1046 > > Phone: 517-353-1827 > Fax: 517-353-9812 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Landen, Marcia [mailto:xxxxxx@INDIANA.EDU] > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 11:26 AM > To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG > Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] qualifications for research admin > > Funny. I've had the exact opposite experience. Every single faculty > member I've talked with about my pursuing the PhD has been extremely > supportive. "If only more people in Administration understood us..." > And, for sure, I'd recommend that every person in administration take a > class, and a class that is seemingly unrelated to research > administration. It opens up your head. > > My recent experience is a class in qualitative research methods. You'd > think the scientists I work with would just groan, right? Nope. I've got > some new insights into looking at situations with an eye toward the > culture elements of our work. > > And this degree business is, indeed, a cultural element of our > institutions. We are, like it or not, a classist and elitist system, and > unless we want to take a Marxist approach to the world, this isn't > likely to change much. That doesn't mean I'd require an advanced degree > for a job that doesn't require academic skills or experience, but given > equal qualifications of two candidates, I'd take the one with a degree, > and preferably an advanced degree. For those of us working in colleges > and universities we are, after all, in the business of higher education. > > Marcia Landen > Director, Awards Coordination > Sponsored Research Services > Indiana University > 107 S. Indiana Ave. > Bryan Hall Room 108 > Bloomington, IN 47405-7000 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael J. McCue [mailto:xxxxxx@CGA.MSU.EDU] > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 9:56 AM > To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG > Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] qualifications for research admin > > I have a BA, an MPA and a JD. I've found that the number of letters > after my name and the JD carries a lot of weight with faculty. No one in > our office has a Ph.D. and very few advanced degrees. MSU has over $280 > million in sponsored research each year. Our director, has a BS but has > been involved in the process for nearly 25 years. Certainly, the > experience lends him a lot of credibility. I've thought about getting a > Ph.D. and several faculty members highly discouraged it because of what > as seen as people getting Ph.Ds to get Ph.Ds and to not really do > anything with them. Several of them directed me to an article that > appeared in the New York Times last year about the glut of Ph.Ds and the > apparent watering-down of the quality of Ph.Ds in recent years. > > Anyway, food for thought. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Michael J. McCue, M.P.A., J.D. > Contract and Grant Administration > Michigan State University > 301 Administration Building > East Lansing, Michigan 48824-1046 > > Phone: 517-353-1827 > Fax: 517-353-9812 > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Campbell [mailto:xxxxxx@UWRF.EDU] > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 10:34 AM > To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG > Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] qualifications for research admin > > Maureen, I grant you that are correct from the HR point of view. But > many faculty are completely ignorant of the HR point of view; indeed, > some insist on maintaining that ignorance, since it demonstrates that > they have not been corrupted by the insidious, standards-lowering > bureaucrats in Old Main. > > Before the PhDs on this list bridle, I'm former faculty, so I think I'm > entitled to say that. And my PhD is in philosophy, a field at least as > far removed from grants/research admin as medieval literature. (Though > facility in argumentation is a very valuable skill, both in > writing/reviewing grant proposals and in fighting the political battles > on campus.) > > I think Spanky is right--some faculty, alas, will simply not regard > non-PhDs as colleagues worthy of their attention; to them, we're clerks. > Holding a PhD is not the only way to gain their respect, but it > certainly works. So I think it's appropriate to advertise jobs as > directors of grants/research jobs with PhD strongly desired, if not > required. Is it fair? Nope. But little is. > > Regards, Bill > > Bill Campbell > Director, Grants & Research > University of Wisconsin-River Falls > 715/425-3195 > xxxxxx@uwrf.edu > > >>> xxxxxx@UILLINOIS.EDU 04/09/03 09:00AM >>> > As a Human Resources professional who has earned a Masters in Medieval > Literature, I find I may be uniquely qualified to comment on this issue. > While my academic side says that the post-bachelor degree probably means > a > certain familiarity with the world of academia and its quirks, my HR > side > says that position qualifications ideally should be tied to the actual > work > the incumbant will be doing. So the question I think we should ask is, > "What > job skills does an individual gain through graduate study that cannot be > gained elsewhere?" > > ~~Maureen > > Maureen D. Kofkee, MA, PHR > Resource and Policy Analyst > > University of Illinois Office of Human Resources > 807 South Wright Street > Champaign, IL, 61820 > > 217.333.2590 > 217.333.2789 (fax) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike McCallister [mailto:xxxxxx@UALR.EDU] > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 4:32 PM > To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG > Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] qualifications for research admin > > Oh please, go ahead and acknowledge Higher Ed conceit. if I hadn't > finished my Ph.D., I'd have never had a shot at my true 3P (Peter > Principle Potential). More and more, I think his is driven not by > researchers but by OUR bosses who want a spiffy stable. Finally, > someone who has earned an advanced degree has at least a bit more > familiarity with the culture in which we toil. Crazy enough to get > that degree, crazy enough to work here-- that sort of thing. THEN > they find out we've got the best jobs on campus. > > Spanky > > >\I disagree. Aren't most faculty members interested in good service > >above all else? I think most people, even in an environment that, > >on the surface, seems defined by academic credentials, look at > >intelligence, credibility, and work ethic above all else. What > >difference does a degree make? My years spent chopping up fish and > >rats didn't help me in "supervising others, assisting faculty to > >develop proposals, including interpreting guidelines, setting up and > >monitoring accounts & expenditures, advising on compliance issues". > > > >Charlie Hathaway > > > >PHD..piled high and deep > > > >At 04:21 PM 4/8/03 -0400, you wrote: > >>rebecca- > >>yes, the degree is absolutely necessary in an academic environment, > and, > even > >>though the position is assistant director, i'd put the minimum at a > master's. > >>furthermore, i'd want to see 8-10 years experience in steadily more > >>responsible > >>research admin positions, with supervisory experience as well as > >>experience in > >>the specific areas for which this person will have responsibilties. > >>susan > >> > >>-- > >>Susan B. Burke > >>Information Specialist > >>Office of Research Services > >>The George Washington University > >>2121 I Street NW, Suite 601 > >>Washington, DC 20052 > >>Telephone: 202-994-9136 > >>Facsimile: 202-994-9137 > > > >************************************** > >Charles B. Hathaway, Ph.D., Director > >Office of Grant Support > >Albert Einstein College of Medicine > >1300 Morris Park Avenue > >Bronx, NY 10461-1975 > >Phone: 718 430-3642 Fax: 718 430-8822 > >email: xxxxxx@aecom.yu.edu > >http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ogs > > > > > >====================================================================== > > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > >====================================================================== > > -- > Mike McCallister, Ph. D. > Director, Research and Sponsored Programs > University of Arkansas at Little Rock > 2801 South University > Little Rock, AR 72204-1099 > (v) 501-569-8474 > (f) 501-371-7614 > (c) 501-590-5609 > > Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one > can go. - T.S. Eliot > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ======================================================================
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