The degrees we gain, by any other name could be called union cards.
They let us in to the academic world at certain levels.  This is not
fair, it has nothing, or very little at least, to do with the
qualifications necessary to be a competent sponsored research
administrator, but it is reality.

I have read many of your comments, and I truly believe that human
nature being what it is, the degree stipulations are security blankets
for institutions.  It's a feel good. It helps to counteract some of
the uncertainly of selection.

Now, I also believe that anyone who persists in obtaining masters and/
or doctoral degrees does, indeed, know a great deal about management
of time and resources, how to set up research protocols, how to read
an academic journal, how to fill out forms competently, among many
other things.  All of this definitely helps anyone who is in the field
of grant administration, whether by chance or by choice.

As with many roles we play, one must have the card, tag, degree,
whatever, to gain access.  What you do once you get there is truly up
to the individual.

Mary Watson
VALDOSTA STATE UNIVERSITY\

-----Original Message-----
From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG]On
Behalf Of Charlie Hathaway
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 11:15 AM
To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] qualifications for research admin

Now I'm thinking that this may all depend on the TYPE of academic
environment one inhabits.  It seems ironic, but perhaps the biomedical
community is LESS hung-up about degrees and has MORE respect for those
without multiple diplomas.  Good nurses and lab technicians are
essential to the efforts of MDs and bench scientists, respectively.
The nature of medicine and science requires contact and good working
relationships with many.   You don't survive if you view other people
as garbage.

Are white coats are more democratic than tweed?

At 09:33 AM 4/9/03 -0500, you wrote:
>Maureen, I grant you that are correct from the HR point of view.  But
many faculty are completely ignorant of the HR point of view; indeed,
some insist on maintaining that ignorance, since it demonstrates that
they have not been corrupted by the insidious, standards-lowering
bureaucrats in Old Main.
>
>Before the PhDs on this list bridle, I'm former faculty, so I think
I'm entitled to say that.  And my PhD is in philosophy, a field at
least as far removed from grants/research admin as medieval
literature.  (Though facility in argumentation is a very valuable
skill, both in writing/reviewing grant proposals and in fighting the
political battles on campus.)
>
>I think Spanky is right--some faculty, alas, will simply not regard
non-PhDs as colleagues worthy of their attention; to them, we're
clerks.  Holding a PhD is not the only way to gain their respect, but
it certainly works.  So I think it's appropriate to advertise jobs as
directors of grants/research jobs with PhD strongly desired, if not
required.  Is it fair?  Nope.  But little is.
>
>Regards, Bill
>
>Bill Campbell
>Director, Grants & Research
>University of Wisconsin-River Falls
>715/425-3195
>xxxxxx@uwrf.edu
>
>>>> xxxxxx@UILLINOIS.EDU 04/09/03 09:00AM >>>
>As a Human Resources professional who has earned a Masters in
Medieval
>Literature, I find I may be uniquely qualified to comment on this
issue.
>While my academic side says that the post-bachelor degree probably
means a
>certain familiarity with the world of academia and its quirks, my HR
side
>says that position qualifications ideally should be tied to the
actual work
>the incumbant will be doing. So the question I think we should ask
is, "What
>job skills does an individual gain through graduate study that cannot
be
>gained elsewhere?"
>
>~~Maureen
>
>Maureen D. Kofkee, MA, PHR
>Resource and Policy Analyst
>
>University of Illinois Office of Human Resources
>807 South Wright Street
>Champaign, IL, 61820
>
>217.333.2590
>217.333.2789 (fax)
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike McCallister [mailto:xxxxxx@UALR.EDU]
>Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 4:32 PM
>To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] qualifications for research admin
>
>
>Oh please, go ahead and acknowledge Higher Ed conceit.  if I hadn't
>finished my Ph.D., I'd have never had a shot at my true 3P (Peter
>Principle Potential).  More and more, I think his is driven not by
>researchers but by OUR bosses who want a spiffy stable.  Finally,
>someone who has earned an advanced degree has at least a bit more
>familiarity with the culture in which we toil.  Crazy enough to get
>that degree, crazy enough to work here-- that sort of thing. THEN
>they find out we've got the best jobs on campus.
>
>Spanky
>
>>\I disagree.  Aren't most faculty members interested in good service
>>above all else?  I think most people, even in an environment that,
>>on the surface, seems defined by academic credentials, look at
>>intelligence, credibility, and work ethic above all else. What
>>difference does a degree make?  My years spent chopping up fish and
>>rats didn't help me in "supervising others, assisting faculty to
>>develop proposals, including interpreting guidelines, setting up and
>>monitoring accounts & expenditures, advising on compliance issues".
>>
>>Charlie Hathaway
>>
>>PHD..piled high and deep
>>
>>At 04:21 PM 4/8/03 -0400, you wrote:
>>>rebecca-
>>>yes, the degree is absolutely necessary in an academic environment,
and,
>even
>>>though the position is assistant director, i'd put the minimum at a
>master's.
>>>furthermore, i'd want to see 8-10 years experience in steadily more
>>>responsible
>>>research admin positions, with supervisory experience as well as
>>>experience in
>>>the specific areas for which this person will have responsibilties.
>>>susan
>>>
>>>--
>>>Susan B. Burke
>>>Information Specialist
>>>Office of Research Services
>>>The George Washington University
>>>2121 I Street NW, Suite 601
>>>Washington, DC 20052
>>>Telephone: 202-994-9136
>>>Facsimile: 202-994-9137
>>
>>**************************************
>>Charles B. Hathaway, Ph.D., Director
>>Office of Grant Support
>>Albert Einstein College of Medicine
>>1300 Morris Park Avenue
>>Bronx, NY 10461-1975
>>Phone: 718 430-3642     Fax: 718 430-8822
>>email: xxxxxx@aecom.yu.edu
>>http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ogs
>>
>>
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>
>
>--
>Mike McCallister, Ph. D.
>  Director, Research and Sponsored Programs
>University of Arkansas at Little Rock
>2801 South University
>Little Rock, AR 72204-1099
>(v) 501-569-8474
>(f) 501-371-7614
>(c) 501-590-5609
>
>
>Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one
>can go. - T.S. Eliot
>
>
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 subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
 via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists")
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