Probably not more democratic, but maybe more practical!! Charlie Hathaway wrote: > Now I'm thinking that this may all depend on the TYPE of academic environment one inhabits. It seems ironic, but perhaps the biomedical community is LESS hung-up about degrees and has MORE respect for those without multiple diplomas. Good nurses and lab technicians are essential to the efforts of MDs and bench scientists, respectively. The nature of medicine and science requires contact and good working relationships with many. You don't survive if you view other people as garbage. > > Are white coats are more democratic than tweed? > > At 09:33 AM 4/9/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Maureen, I grant you that are correct from the HR point of view. But many faculty are completely ignorant of the HR point of view; indeed, some insist on maintaining that ignorance, since it demonstrates that they have not been corrupted by the insidious, standards-lowering bureaucrats in Old Main. > > > >Before the PhDs on this list bridle, I'm former faculty, so I think I'm entitled to say that. And my PhD is in philosophy, a field at least as far removed from grants/research admin as medieval literature. (Though facility in argumentation is a very valuable skill, both in writing/reviewing grant proposals and in fighting the political battles on campus.) > > > >I think Spanky is right--some faculty, alas, will simply not regard non-PhDs as colleagues worthy of their attention; to them, we're clerks. Holding a PhD is not the only way to gain their respect, but it certainly works. So I think it's appropriate to advertise jobs as directors of grants/research jobs with PhD strongly desired, if not required. Is it fair? Nope. But little is. > > > >Regards, Bill > > > >Bill Campbell > >Director, Grants & Research > >University of Wisconsin-River Falls > >715/425-3195 > >xxxxxx@uwrf.edu > > > >>>> xxxxxx@UILLINOIS.EDU 04/09/03 09:00AM >>> > >As a Human Resources professional who has earned a Masters in Medieval > >Literature, I find I may be uniquely qualified to comment on this issue. > >While my academic side says that the post-bachelor degree probably means a > >certain familiarity with the world of academia and its quirks, my HR side > >says that position qualifications ideally should be tied to the actual work > >the incumbant will be doing. So the question I think we should ask is, "What > >job skills does an individual gain through graduate study that cannot be > >gained elsewhere?" > > > >~~Maureen > > > >Maureen D. Kofkee, MA, PHR > >Resource and Policy Analyst > > > >University of Illinois Office of Human Resources > >807 South Wright Street > >Champaign, IL, 61820 > > > >217.333.2590 > >217.333.2789 (fax) > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mike McCallister [mailto:xxxxxx@UALR.EDU] > >Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 4:32 PM > >To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG > >Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] qualifications for research admin > > > > > >Oh please, go ahead and acknowledge Higher Ed conceit. if I hadn't > >finished my Ph.D., I'd have never had a shot at my true 3P (Peter > >Principle Potential). More and more, I think his is driven not by > >researchers but by OUR bosses who want a spiffy stable. Finally, > >someone who has earned an advanced degree has at least a bit more > >familiarity with the culture in which we toil. Crazy enough to get > >that degree, crazy enough to work here-- that sort of thing. THEN > >they find out we've got the best jobs on campus. > > > >Spanky > > > >>\I disagree. Aren't most faculty members interested in good service > >>above all else? I think most people, even in an environment that, > >>on the surface, seems defined by academic credentials, look at > >>intelligence, credibility, and work ethic above all else. What > >>difference does a degree make? My years spent chopping up fish and > >>rats didn't help me in "supervising others, assisting faculty to > >>develop proposals, including interpreting guidelines, setting up and > >>monitoring accounts & expenditures, advising on compliance issues". > >> > >>Charlie Hathaway > >> > >>PHD..piled high and deep > >> > >>At 04:21 PM 4/8/03 -0400, you wrote: > >>>rebecca- > >>>yes, the degree is absolutely necessary in an academic environment, and, > >even > >>>though the position is assistant director, i'd put the minimum at a > >master's. > >>>furthermore, i'd want to see 8-10 years experience in steadily more > >>>responsible > >>>research admin positions, with supervisory experience as well as > >>>experience in > >>>the specific areas for which this person will have responsibilties. > >>>susan > >>> > >>>-- > >>>Susan B. Burke > >>>Information Specialist > >>>Office of Research Services > >>>The George Washington University > >>>2121 I Street NW, Suite 601 > >>>Washington, DC 20052 > >>>Telephone: 202-994-9136 > >>>Facsimile: 202-994-9137 > >> > >>************************************** > >>Charles B. Hathaway, Ph.D., Director > >>Office of Grant Support > >>Albert Einstein College of Medicine > >>1300 Morris Park Avenue > >>Bronx, NY 10461-1975 > >>Phone: 718 430-3642 Fax: 718 430-8822 > >>email: xxxxxx@aecom.yu.edu > >>http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ogs > >> > >> > >>====================================================================== > >> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > >> subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > >> via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > >>====================================================================== > > > > > >-- > >Mike McCallister, Ph. D. > > Director, Research and Sponsored Programs > >University of Arkansas at Little Rock > >2801 South University > >Little Rock, AR 72204-1099 > >(v) 501-569-8474 > >(f) 501-371-7614 > >(c) 501-590-5609 > > > > > >Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one > >can go. - T.S. Eliot > > > > > >====================================================================== > > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > >====================================================================== > > > > > >====================================================================== > > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > >====================================================================== > > > > > >====================================================================== > > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > >====================================================================== > > > > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== -- Jennifer Donais, CRA Associate Director Office of Grant & Contract Administration University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003 (413) 545-5888 FAX (413) 577-1595 http://www.umass.edu/research/ogca ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ======================================================================
