Bob, We are generally flexible with internal deadlines when we are familiar with the proposal and have the wherewithal to get it out the door, but there have been times when a proposal was so late that we did not take responsibility for review, routing or submission. We found that rushing a proposal through our internal approval process often backfired on our office -- either because we would fail to notice problems with the proposal or because the last minute rushing around was misinterpreted by other administrators as a lack of organization on our part. We were also finding that the more we bent over backwards (coming in on weekends and working late nights), the more time some people would take in getting their proposals to us and the harder we would have to work. Now we tell PIs that if the proposal is past the internal deadline that we will help as best we can, but that there are no guarantees that it will be submitted. On a few occasions, the PI has had to mail or deliver the proposal. If the proposal has to be delivered overnight, the PI's department picks up the tab. Otherwise we do. Since we help PIs with proposal development and do the budgets for them, our PIs know that the earlier they come here, the more help we can give them. If we stuck strictly to our internal timelines, our job would be easier, but we would probably have very few proposals to process! Donna Berger Coordinator, Academic Grants Marist College Phone: 845-575-3670 BOB <xxxxxx@UMICH.ED To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG U> cc: Sent by: Research Subject: [RESADM-L] grant office deadlines Administration List <xxxxxx@HRINET. ORG> 03/12/2003 02:40 PM Please respond to Research Administration Discussion List Just for the record, I would really like to know, Has any grants office submitted a proposal that violated your deadline rules? Or on the other side, has any grants office refused to submit a proposal due to timing, as long as there was time to actually send it? Even it it meant a little work past 5pm. Sorry Professor Smith, you did not get your proposal to us x days prior to the submission date so we will not send it? or x hours before we close. Are day or days in advance deadlines by grants offices enforced? If not by rejection of submission, how? Bob Beattie Managing Project Representative for eRA The University of Michigan xxxxxx@umich.edu --On Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:24 PM -0600 "Wasserman, Sarah W" <xxxxxx@OBA.UIUC.EDU> wrote: > Spanky, I'm with you. > > At Illinois, we have a required lead time for proposals to be in our > office before they have to be submitted to the sponsor. But this > requirements is "honored more in the breach than the observance." The > proposal that doesn't get funded is the one that doesn't get submitted. > I have seen ugly, typo-ridden, poorly-paginated, badly-formatted > proposals get funded. If it's humanly possible, we will get the proposal > out in time to meet the deadline. Yet, most days, most of the staff who > process proposals leave at 5:00. > > Sarah W. Wasserman > Associate Director > Grants and Contracts Office > University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign > 801 South Wright Street > Champaign, IL 61820 > (v) 217-244-7637 > (f) 217-333-2189 > xxxxxx@uillinois.edu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike McCallister [mailto:xxxxxx@UALR.EDU] > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:00 PM > To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG > Subject: [RESADM-L] Electronic proposals > > > I've been stewing over this since the original post. Leveler (and > balder, Jim) heads have spoken and the important points have been > made. I am deeply troubled, however, by the whole idea of this late > fee charge. I'm as against this concept as one can get. In fact, I > find most policies about deadlines to get proposals into the research > office for any kind of submission laughable. "Some "exceptions will > be made." Yes, because exceptions are our job and unless the > proposal is still "loose junk in a box" we all tend to get them > submitted, if we can. > > One of the unpretty aspects of research administration culture is the > idea that we are administering anything particularly researchers. We > are helpers and helpers don't punish. They train, teach, encourage, > and occasionally just put up with researchers. Being late can be > discouraged, but human nature is what it is-- folks will often be > late. Having policies and punitive steps is bad, bad PR, makes us > look like controlling clerks and cops, rather than peers within the > proposal process. It looks anything but professional. > > For sure, I threaten the very lives of those who are chronically > late, try to abuse our folks, and are generally sloppy. there are > some I would cheerfully bop in the head if they stepped in my door > right now. But I can do change their behavior more effectively as a > peer and a member of the academic community than by charging > someone's budget. That will have little effect on the PI, anyway. > Fees are punishments, punishments are for kids, and even when our > PI's act like kids, they really aren't. And they hold grudges, > gossip to whiners, and make our challenging job less fun when we > embarrass them. > > I'd rethink this whole deal. It's going to reap more ill will than > behavior change. I don't know of a research office that has good > will to burn. > > And if I'm dead wrong, that's fine, too. Won't be the first time. > > Spanky > >> At Utah State University, we have instituted a new policy which requires >> all proposed applications be submitted to my office 2 full working days >> before the Sponsor due date. If they are not submitted as per the >> policy, USU will no longer be signing the applications or transmitting >> them electronically. We have determined that there will most likely be >> some exceptions to this rule, but there will be a fee attached to the >> lateness of the proposal. Thankfully, the Vice President for Research, >> the Research Council and our President are in full support of this. The >> policy becomes effective as of May 1. >> >> Dennis J. Paffrath, Director >> Utah State University >> Sponsored Programs Office >> 1415 Old Main Hill - Room 64 >> Logan, UT 84322-1415 >> >> xxxxxx@usu.edu >> (435) 797-8302 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG] On >> Behalf Of Charlie Hathaway >> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:50 AM >> To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG >> Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Electronic proposal lead time >> >> I tell researchers that electronic research administration will speed up >> application review and award but those benefits will require sacrifice >> on the >> pre-submission side. When full implementation occurs and electronic >> routing >> for all approvals/signatures is part of the game, 4:58 proposals will be >> a >> thing of the past. >> >> Charlie Hathaway >> >> Quoting Steven Etheredge <xxxxxx@GWM.SC.EDU>: >> >>> Dear Colleagues: >>> >>> While all of us have preferred lead times (in our case, 3 days) for >>> receiving proposals in our office, we have been experiencing more >> angst >>> than usual as more and more agencies have gone to electronic >> submission. >>> (And we thought eRA would make our jobs easier!) We are a large >>> institution and will submit approximately 1,700 proposals this year. >> We >>> are finding that our PI's normal behavior of getting many proposals to >>> us on the actual day of required electronic submission is creating >>> significant issues with non-user friendly e-grant systems, such as >> DOE, >>> along with slow agency server response on due dates. We are being >>> pushed to the limits in getting these e-proposals submitted before the >>> deadline. >>> >>> My questions relate to whether your institution has developed >>> guidelines to deal specifically with proposals that require electronic >>> submission. We are contemplating putting such a policy in place. >> Your >>> input will be appreciated. >>> >>> Steve Etheredge >>> Associate Director >>> >>> >>> >>> R. Steven Etheredge, Associate Director >>> Sponsored Programs & Research >>> University of South Carolina >>> (803) 777-7093 >>> (803) 777-4136 fax >>> xxxxxx@gwm.sc.edu >>> >>> >>> ====================================================================== >>> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including >>> subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available >>> via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") >>> ====================================================================== >>> >> >> >> ====================================================================== >> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including >> subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available >> via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") >> ====================================================================== >> >> >> ====================================================================== >> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including >> subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available >> via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") >> ====================================================================== > > > -- > Mike McCallister, Ph. D. > Director, Research and Sponsored Programs > University of Arkansas at Little Rock > 2801 South University > Little Rock, AR 72204-1099 > (v) 501-569-8474 > (f) 501-371-7614 > (c) 501-590-5609 > > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new > discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I've found it!), but 'That's funny...'" > ~ Isaac Asimov > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== > > > ====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ======================================================================
