At Rockefeller, if it's physically possible we'll try our best to get the
thing in by the deadline, or have the PI ask for an extension.  We have
policies which are generally followed (as we don't have departments at RU,
the Sponsored Programs office fills some of the functions of a departmental
office, so we ask for a rough draft two weeks before the deadline and
finalized administrative sections (draft of science is OK) two days
before).  We have invested in a large red stamp, "Insufficient Time to
Review" - which is prominently stamped on our internal notation sheet and
on the sheet sent back to the investigator, should we feel that it is
appropriate.  We still get some applications, notably from postdocs, at
5:15 on the day they are due, and applications from more senior
investigators which are two days late and for which we must then drop
everything and get the application (typically a mess and not seen before
then) shaped up and out the door.  Such are the challenges and annoyances
of our occupation.  In our culture, we would never not send out an
application unless there is something illegal or otherwise inappropriate,
as long as we have something to review and approve.  Yes, we are sometimes
here at 9 pm and on weekends, and almost always until 6 or 7.

Jon Hart

At 02:40 PM 3/12/03 -0500, you wrote:
>Just for the record, I would really like to know,
>
>Has any grants office submitted a proposal that violated your deadline
>rules?  Or on the other side, has any grants office refused to submit a
>proposal due to timing, as long as there was time to actually send it?
>Even it it meant a little work past 5pm.
>
>Sorry Professor Smith, you did not get your proposal to us x days prior to
>the submission date so we will not send it?  or x hours before we close.
>
>Are day or days in advance deadlines by grants offices enforced?  If not by
>rejection of submission, how?
>
>Bob Beattie
>Managing Project Representative for eRA
>The University of Michigan
>xxxxxx@umich.edu
>
>--On Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:24 PM -0600 "Wasserman, Sarah W"
><xxxxxx@OBA.UIUC.EDU> wrote:
>
>>Spanky, I'm with you.
>>
>>At Illinois, we have a required lead time for proposals to be in our
>>office before they have to be submitted to the sponsor.  But this
>>requirements is "honored more in the breach  than the observance."  The
>>proposal that doesn't get funded is the one that doesn't get submitted.
>>I have seen ugly, typo-ridden, poorly-paginated, badly-formatted
>>proposals get funded.  If it's humanly possible, we will get the proposal
>>out in time to meet the deadline.  Yet, most days, most of the staff who
>>process proposals leave at 5:00.
>>
>>Sarah W. Wasserman
>>Associate Director
>>Grants and Contracts Office
>>University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>>801 South Wright Street
>>Champaign, IL 61820
>>(v) 217-244-7637
>>(f)  217-333-2189
>>xxxxxx@uillinois.edu
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mike McCallister [mailto:xxxxxx@UALR.EDU]
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:00 PM
>>To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
>>Subject: [RESADM-L] Electronic proposals
>>
>>
>>I've been stewing over this since the original post.  Leveler (and
>>balder, Jim) heads have spoken and the important points have been
>>made.  I am deeply troubled, however, by the whole idea of this late
>>fee charge.  I'm as against this concept as one can get.  In fact, I
>>find most policies about deadlines to get proposals into the research
>>office for any kind of submission laughable.  "Some "exceptions will
>>be made."  Yes, because exceptions are our job and unless the
>>proposal is still "loose junk in a box" we all tend to get them
>>submitted, if we can.
>>
>>One of the unpretty aspects of research administration culture is the
>>idea that we are administering anything particularly researchers.  We
>>are helpers and helpers don't punish.  They train, teach, encourage,
>>and occasionally just put up with researchers.  Being late can be
>>discouraged, but human nature is what it is-- folks will often be
>>late. Having policies and punitive steps is bad, bad PR, makes us
>>look like controlling clerks and cops, rather than peers within the
>>proposal process.  It looks anything but professional.
>>
>>For sure, I threaten the very lives of those who are chronically
>>late, try to abuse our folks, and are generally sloppy.  there are
>>some I would cheerfully bop in the head if they stepped in my door
>>right now. But I can do change their behavior more effectively as a
>>peer and a member of the academic community than by charging
>>someone's budget.  That will have little effect on the PI, anyway.
>>Fees are punishments, punishments are for kids, and even when our
>>PI's act like kids, they really aren't.   And they hold grudges,
>>gossip to whiners, and make our challenging job less fun when we
>>embarrass them.
>>
>>I'd rethink this whole deal.  It's going to reap more ill will than
>>behavior change.  I don't know of a research office that has good
>>will to burn.
>>
>>And if I'm dead wrong, that's fine, too.  Won't be the first time.
>>
>>Spanky
>>
>>>At Utah State University, we have instituted a new policy which requires
>>>all proposed applications be submitted to my office 2 full working days
>>>before the Sponsor due date. If they are not submitted as per the
>>>policy, USU will no longer be signing the applications or transmitting
>>>them electronically.  We have determined that there will most likely be
>>>some exceptions to this rule, but there will be a fee attached to the
>>>lateness of the proposal.  Thankfully, the Vice President for Research,
>>>the Research Council and our President are in full support of this.  The
>>>policy becomes effective as of May 1.
>>>
>>>Dennis J. Paffrath, Director
>>>Utah State University
>>>Sponsored Programs Office
>>>1415 Old Main Hill - Room 64
>>>Logan, UT  84322-1415
>>>
>>>xxxxxx@usu.edu
>>>(435) 797-8302
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG] On
>>>Behalf Of Charlie Hathaway
>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:50 AM
>>>To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
>>>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Electronic proposal lead time
>>>
>>>I tell researchers that electronic research administration will speed up
>>>application review and award but those benefits will require sacrifice
>>>on the
>>>pre-submission side.  When full implementation occurs and electronic
>>>routing
>>>for all approvals/signatures is part of the game, 4:58 proposals will be
>>>a
>>>thing of the past.
>>>
>>>Charlie Hathaway
>>>
>>>Quoting Steven Etheredge <xxxxxx@GWM.SC.EDU>:
>>>
>>>>  Dear Colleagues:
>>>>
>>>>  While all of us have preferred lead times (in our case, 3 days) for
>>>>  receiving proposals in our office, we have been experiencing more
>>>angst
>>>>  than usual as more and more agencies have gone to electronic
>>>submission.
>>>>  (And we thought eRA would make our jobs easier!)  We are a large
>>>>  institution and will submit approximately 1,700 proposals this year.
>>>We
>>>>  are finding that our PI's normal behavior of getting many proposals to
>>>>  us on the actual day of required electronic submission is creating
>>>>  significant issues with non-user friendly e-grant systems, such as
>>>DOE,
>>>>  along with slow agency server response on due dates.  We are being
>>>>  pushed to the limits in getting these e-proposals submitted before the
>>>>  deadline.
>>>>
>>>>  My questions relate to whether your institution has developed
>>>>  guidelines to deal specifically with proposals that require electronic
>>>>  submission.  We are contemplating putting such a policy in place.
>>>Your
>>>>  input will be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>  Steve Etheredge
>>>>  Associate Director
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  R. Steven Etheredge, Associate Director
>>>>  Sponsored Programs & Research
>>>>  University of South Carolina
>>>>  (803) 777-7093
>>>>  (803) 777-4136 fax
>>>>  xxxxxx@gwm.sc.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ======================================================================
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>>>>   subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>--
>>Mike McCallister, Ph. D.
>>   Director, Research and Sponsored Programs
>>University of Arkansas at Little Rock
>>2801 South University
>>Little Rock, AR 72204-1099
>>(v) 501-569-8474
>>(f) 501-371-7614
>>(c) 501-590-5609
>>
>>"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
>>discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I've found it!), but 'That's funny...'"
>>   ~ Isaac Asimov
>>
>>
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>>  subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
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>
>
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>subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
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>======================================================================

Jon Hart, Senior Director, Sponsored Programs Administration
The Rockefeller University
1230 York Ave.-Box 82, NY, NY 10021-6399
tel:  (212) 327-8054; fax:  (212) 327-8400
e-mail:  xxxxxx@rockefeller.edu

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