pillory? At 03:08 PM 3/12/03 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks, Spanky and Sarah, for your comments. I think the comment about >charging a fee for late comers pushed the discussion off track somewhat. > We always attempt to get proposals submitted, even when they come in >the door at the last minute. Most of the few times that we have been >unable to make submission of late proposals have been due to problems >related to e-submissions. > >My question relates specifically to the new age of electronic >proposals. With the constraints imposed by the numerous e-grants >systems, we are finding it extremely difficult to submit late-arriving >proposals. When we submitted all paper proposals, we could in many >cases send a less-than-perfect proposal, and, yes, some of those do get >funded. That is exactly why we face this dilemma. With many >e-propoposals arriving late, we are stretched to deal with proposals >which e-systems reject because of formatting, missing parts or other >errors. Most e-systems are not very forgiving as far as adherence to >their guidelines. It may not be a question of submitting a poor >proposal; it may be that the grantor's system will not accept the >proposal in the state which the PI gives it to us at the last minute. >The time which we have to devote to these problemmatic proposals steals >time from other submissions which need to make similar deadlines. Our >thoughts about establishing some special deadline for e-proposals is >self-protection; if it's not here by the internal deadline, we cannot >guarantee submission by the grantor's deadline. That is not to imply >that we will not do everything possible to get them in on time; we >always go above and beyond to do so. Yet, we must protect those who do >get the proposals in with sufficient time over those who consistently >stretch the margins. > >We would not be telling a PI that his/her grant won't be submitted, >only that circumstances may prevent submission if it's not here by the >internal deadline. > > >R. Steven Etheredge, Associate Director >Sponsored Programs & Research >University of South Carolina >(803) 777-7093 >(803) 777-4136 fax >xxxxxx@gwm.sc.edu > > >>>> xxxxxx@OBA.UIUC.EDU 03/12/03 02:24PM >>> >Spanky, I'm with you. > >At Illinois, we have a required lead time for proposals to be in our >office >before they have to be submitted to the sponsor. But this requirements >is >"honored more in the breach than the observance." The proposal that >doesn't get funded is the one that doesn't get submitted. I have seen >ugly, typo-ridden, poorly-paginated, badly-formatted proposals get >funded. If it's humanly possible, we will get the proposal out in time >to meet the deadline. Yet, most days, most of the staff who process >proposals leave at 5:00. > >Sarah W. Wasserman >Associate Director >Grants and Contracts Office >University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign >801 South Wright Street >Champaign, IL 61820 >(v) 217-244-7637 >(f) 217-333-2189 >xxxxxx@uillinois.edu > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike McCallister [mailto:xxxxxx@UALR.EDU] >Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:00 PM >To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG >Subject: [RESADM-L] Electronic proposals > > >I've been stewing over this since the original post. Leveler (and >balder, Jim) heads have spoken and the important points have been >made. I am deeply troubled, however, by the whole idea of this late >fee charge. I'm as against this concept as one can get. In fact, I >find most policies about deadlines to get proposals into the research >office for any kind of submission laughable. "Some "exceptions will >be made." Yes, because exceptions are our job and unless the >proposal is still "loose junk in a box" we all tend to get them >submitted, if we can. > >One of the unpretty aspects of research administration culture is the >idea that we are administering anything particularly researchers. We >are helpers and helpers don't punish. They train, teach, encourage, >and occasionally just put up with researchers. Being late can be >discouraged, but human nature is what it is-- folks will often be >late. Having policies and punitive steps is bad, bad PR, makes us >look like controlling clerks and cops, rather than peers within the >proposal process. It looks anything but professional. > >For sure, I threaten the very lives of those who are chronically >late, try to abuse our folks, and are generally sloppy. there are >some I would cheerfully bop in the head if they stepped in my door >right now. But I can do change their behavior more effectively as a >peer and a member of the academic community than by charging >someone's budget. That will have little effect on the PI, anyway. >Fees are punishments, punishments are for kids, and even when our >PI's act like kids, they really aren't. And they hold grudges, >gossip to whiners, and make our challenging job less fun when we >embarrass them. > >I'd rethink this whole deal. It's going to reap more ill will than >behavior change. I don't know of a research office that has good >will to burn. > >And if I'm dead wrong, that's fine, too. Won't be the first time. > >Spanky > >>At Utah State University, we have instituted a new policy which >requires >>all proposed applications be submitted to my office 2 full working >days >>before the Sponsor due date. If they are not submitted as per the >>policy, USU will no longer be signing the applications or >transmitting >>them electronically. We have determined that there will most likely >be >>some exceptions to this rule, but there will be a fee attached to the >>lateness of the proposal. Thankfully, the Vice President for >Research, >>the Research Council and our President are in full support of this. >The >>policy becomes effective as of May 1. >> >>Dennis J. Paffrath, Director >>Utah State University >>Sponsored Programs Office >>1415 Old Main Hill - Room 64 >>Logan, UT 84322-1415 >> >>xxxxxx@usu.edu >>(435) 797-8302 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG] On >>Behalf Of Charlie Hathaway >>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:50 AM >>To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG >>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Electronic proposal lead time >> >>I tell researchers that electronic research administration will speed >up >>application review and award but those benefits will require >sacrifice >>on the >>pre-submission side. When full implementation occurs and electronic >>routing >>for all approvals/signatures is part of the game, 4:58 proposals will >be >>a >>thing of the past. >> >>Charlie Hathaway >> >>Quoting Steven Etheredge <xxxxxx@GWM.SC.EDU>: >> >>> Dear Colleagues: >>> >>> While all of us have preferred lead times (in our case, 3 days) >for >>> receiving proposals in our office, we have been experiencing more >>angst >>> than usual as more and more agencies have gone to electronic >>submission. >>> (And we thought eRA would make our jobs easier!) We are a large >>> institution and will submit approximately 1,700 proposals this >year. >>We >>> are finding that our PI's normal behavior of getting many proposals >to >>> us on the actual day of required electronic submission is creating >>> significant issues with non-user friendly e-grant systems, such as >>DOE, >>> along with slow agency server response on due dates. We are being >>> pushed to the limits in getting these e-proposals submitted before >the >>> deadline. >>> >>> My questions relate to whether your institution has developed >>> guidelines to deal specifically with proposals that require >electronic >>> submission. We are contemplating putting such a policy in place. >>Your >>> input will be appreciated. >>> >>> Steve Etheredge >>> Associate Director >>> >>> >>> >>> R. Steven Etheredge, Associate Director >>> Sponsored Programs & Research >>> University of South Carolina >>> (803) 777-7093 >>> (803) 777-4136 fax >>> xxxxxx@gwm.sc.edu >>> >>> >>> >====================================================================== >>> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including >>> subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are >available >>> via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv >Lists") >>> >====================================================================== >>> >> >> >>====================================================================== >> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including >> subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are >available >> via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv >Lists") >>====================================================================== >> >> >>====================================================================== >> Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including >> subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are >available >> via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv >Lists") >>====================================================================== > > >-- >Mike McCallister, Ph. D. > Director, Research and Sponsored Programs >University of Arkansas at Little Rock >2801 South University >Little Rock, AR 72204-1099 >(v) 501-569-8474 >(f) 501-371-7614 >(c) 501-590-5609 > >"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new >discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I've found it!), but 'That's funny...'" > ~ Isaac Asimov > > >====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") >====================================================================== > > >====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") >====================================================================== > > >====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") >====================================================================== > > ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ======================================================================
