Thanks.  I couldn't let that silliness hang out there.

spanky

>Spanky, I'm with you.
>
>At Illinois, we have a required lead time for proposals to be in our office
>before they have to be submitted to the sponsor.  But this requirements is
>"honored more in the breach  than the observance."  The proposal that
>doesn't get funded is the one that doesn't get submitted.  I have seen ugly,
>typo-ridden, poorly-paginated, badly-formatted proposals get funded.  If
>it's humanly possible, we will get the proposal out in time to meet the
>deadline.  Yet, most days, most of the staff who process proposals leave at
>5:00.
>
>Sarah W. Wasserman
>Associate Director
>Grants and Contracts Office
>University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>801 South Wright Street
>Champaign, IL 61820
>(v) 217-244-7637
>(f)  217-333-2189
>xxxxxx@uillinois.edu
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike McCallister [mailto:xxxxxx@UALR.EDU]
>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:00 PM
>To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
>Subject: [RESADM-L] Electronic proposals
>
>
>I've been stewing over this since the original post.  Leveler (and
>balder, Jim) heads have spoken and the important points have been
>made.  I am deeply troubled, however, by the whole idea of this late
>fee charge.  I'm as against this concept as one can get.  In fact, I
>find most policies about deadlines to get proposals into the research
>office for any kind of submission laughable.  "Some "exceptions will
>be made."  Yes, because exceptions are our job and unless the
>proposal is still "loose junk in a box" we all tend to get them
>submitted, if we can.
>
>One of the unpretty aspects of research administration culture is the
>idea that we are administering anything particularly researchers.  We
>are helpers and helpers don't punish.  They train, teach, encourage,
>and occasionally just put up with researchers.  Being late can be
>discouraged, but human nature is what it is-- folks will often be
>late. Having policies and punitive steps is bad, bad PR, makes us
>look like controlling clerks and cops, rather than peers within the
>proposal process.  It looks anything but professional.
>
>For sure, I threaten the very lives of those who are chronically
>late, try to abuse our folks, and are generally sloppy.  there are
>some I would cheerfully bop in the head if they stepped in my door
>right now. But I can do change their behavior more effectively as a
>peer and a member of the academic community than by charging
>someone's budget.  That will have little effect on the PI, anyway.
>Fees are punishments, punishments are for kids, and even when our
>PI's act like kids, they really aren't.   And they hold grudges,
>gossip to whiners, and make our challenging job less fun when we
>embarrass them.
>
>I'd rethink this whole deal.  It's going to reap more ill will than
>behavior change.  I don't know of a research office that has good
>will to burn.
>
>And if I'm dead wrong, that's fine, too.  Won't be the first time.
>
>Spanky
>
>>At Utah State University, we have instituted a new policy which requires
>>all proposed applications be submitted to my office 2 full working days
>>before the Sponsor due date. If they are not submitted as per the
>>policy, USU will no longer be signing the applications or transmitting
>>them electronically.  We have determined that there will most likely be
>>some exceptions to this rule, but there will be a fee attached to the
>>lateness of the proposal.  Thankfully, the Vice President for Research,
>>the Research Council and our President are in full support of this.  The
>>policy becomes effective as of May 1.
>>
>>Dennis J. Paffrath, Director
>>Utah State University
>>Sponsored Programs Office
>>1415 Old Main Hill - Room 64
>>Logan, UT  84322-1415
>>
>>xxxxxx@usu.edu
>>(435) 797-8302
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG] On
>>Behalf Of Charlie Hathaway
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:50 AM
>>To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
>  >Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Electronic proposal lead time
>>
>>I tell researchers that electronic research administration will speed up
>>application review and award but those benefits will require sacrifice
>>on the
>>pre-submission side.  When full implementation occurs and electronic
>>routing
>>for all approvals/signatures is part of the game, 4:58 proposals will be
>>a
>>thing of the past.
>>
>>Charlie Hathaway
>>
>>Quoting Steven Etheredge <xxxxxx@GWM.SC.EDU>:
>>
>>>   Dear Colleagues:
>>>
>>>   While all of us have preferred lead times (in our case, 3 days) for
>>>   receiving proposals in our office, we have been experiencing more
>>angst
>>>   than usual as more and more agencies have gone to electronic
>>submission.
>>>   (And we thought eRA would make our jobs easier!)  We are a large
>>>   institution and will submit approximately 1,700 proposals this year.
>>We
>>>   are finding that our PI's normal behavior of getting many proposals to
>>>   us on the actual day of required electronic submission is creating
>>>   significant issues with non-user friendly e-grant systems, such as
>>DOE,
>>>   along with slow agency server response on due dates.  We are being
>>>   pushed to the limits in getting these e-proposals submitted before the
>>>   deadline.
>>>
>>>   My questions relate to whether your institution has developed
>>>   guidelines to deal specifically with proposals that require electronic
>>>   submission.  We are contemplating putting such a policy in place.
>>Your
>>>   input will be appreciated.
>>>
>>>   Steve Etheredge
>>>   Associate Director
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   R. Steven Etheredge, Associate Director
>>>   Sponsored Programs & Research
>>>   University of South Carolina
>>>   (803) 777-7093
>>>   (803) 777-4136 fax
>>>   xxxxxx@gwm.sc.edu
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>--
>Mike McCallister, Ph. D.
>   Director, Research and Sponsored Programs
>University of Arkansas at Little Rock
>2801 South University
>Little Rock, AR 72204-1099
>(v) 501-569-8474
>(f) 501-371-7614
>(c) 501-590-5609
>
>"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
>discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I've found it!), but 'That's funny...'"
>   ~ Isaac Asimov
>
>
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--
Mike McCallister, Ph. D.
 Director, Research and Sponsored Programs
University of Arkansas at Little Rock
2801 South University
Little Rock, AR 72204-1099
(v) 501-569-8474
(f) 501-371-7614
(c) 501-590-5609

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I've found it!), but 'That's funny...'"
 ~ Isaac Asimov

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