I am against fees - that's just pushing money around and of little
value in the long run.  I am FOR, however, policies that encourage and
promote early presentation of proposals to the research admin office
whenever possible.   I think we do have to acknowledge that we are all
human and every one of us makes mistakes.  We sorted out some
interesting errors coming out of a Washington, DC agency today - it
happens.  I try to develop the ability (and maintain it) to roll with
the punches and do the best in the time we have to get things approved
and submitted.  As I see it, that's out job.

Mary Watson
VALDOSTA STATE UNIVERSITY

-----Original Message-----
From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG]On
Behalf Of Mike McCallister
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:00 PM
To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
Subject: [RESADM-L] Electronic proposals

I've been stewing over this since the original post.  Leveler (and
balder, Jim) heads have spoken and the important points have been
made.  I am deeply troubled, however, by the whole idea of this late
fee charge.  I'm as against this concept as one can get.  In fact, I
find most policies about deadlines to get proposals into the research
office for any kind of submission laughable.  "Some "exceptions will
be made."  Yes, because exceptions are our job and unless the
proposal is still "loose junk in a box" we all tend to get them
submitted, if we can.

One of the unpretty aspects of research administration culture is the
idea that we are administering anything particularly researchers.  We
are helpers and helpers don't punish.  They train, teach, encourage,
and occasionally just put up with researchers.  Being late can be
discouraged, but human nature is what it is-- folks will often be
late. Having policies and punitive steps is bad, bad PR, makes us
look like controlling clerks and cops, rather than peers within the
proposal process.  It looks anything but professional.

For sure, I threaten the very lives of those who are chronically
late, try to abuse our folks, and are generally sloppy.  there are
some I would cheerfully bop in the head if they stepped in my door
right now. But I can do change their behavior more effectively as a
peer and a member of the academic community than by charging
someone's budget.  That will have little effect on the PI, anyway.
Fees are punishments, punishments are for kids, and even when our
PI's act like kids, they really aren't.   And they hold grudges,
gossip to whiners, and make our challenging job less fun when we
embarrass them.

I'd rethink this whole deal.  It's going to reap more ill will than
behavior change.  I don't know of a research office that has good
will to burn.

And if I'm dead wrong, that's fine, too.  Won't be the first time.

Spanky

>At Utah State University, we have instituted a new policy which
requires
>all proposed applications be submitted to my office 2 full working
days
>before the Sponsor due date. If they are not submitted as per the
>policy, USU will no longer be signing the applications or
transmitting
>them electronically.  We have determined that there will most likely
be
>some exceptions to this rule, but there will be a fee attached to the
>lateness of the proposal.  Thankfully, the Vice President for
Research,
>the Research Council and our President are in full support of this.
The
>policy becomes effective as of May 1.
>
>Dennis J. Paffrath, Director
>Utah State University
>Sponsored Programs Office
>1415 Old Main Hill - Room 64
>Logan, UT  84322-1415
>
>xxxxxx@usu.edu
>(435) 797-8302
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG] On
>Behalf Of Charlie Hathaway
>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:50 AM
>To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
>Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Electronic proposal lead time
>
>I tell researchers that electronic research administration will speed
up
>application review and award but those benefits will require
sacrifice
>on the
>pre-submission side.  When full implementation occurs and electronic
>routing
>for all approvals/signatures is part of the game, 4:58 proposals will
be
>a
>thing of the past.
>
>Charlie Hathaway
>
>Quoting Steven Etheredge <xxxxxx@GWM.SC.EDU>:
>
>>  Dear Colleagues:
>>
>>  While all of us have preferred lead times (in our case, 3 days)
for
>>  receiving proposals in our office, we have been experiencing more
>angst
>>  than usual as more and more agencies have gone to electronic
>submission.
>>  (And we thought eRA would make our jobs easier!)  We are a large
>>  institution and will submit approximately 1,700 proposals this
year.
>We
>>  are finding that our PI's normal behavior of getting many
proposals to
>>  us on the actual day of required electronic submission is creating
>>  significant issues with non-user friendly e-grant systems, such as
>DOE,
>>  along with slow agency server response on due dates.  We are being
>>  pushed to the limits in getting these e-proposals submitted before
the
>>  deadline.
>>
>>  My questions relate to whether your institution has developed
>>  guidelines to deal specifically with proposals that require
electronic
>>  submission.  We are contemplating putting such a policy in place.
>Your
>>  input will be appreciated.
>>
>>  Steve Etheredge
>>  Associate Director
>>
>>
>>
>>  R. Steven Etheredge, Associate Director
>>  Sponsored Programs & Research
>>  University of South Carolina
>>  (803) 777-7093
>>  (803) 777-4136 fax
>>  xxxxxx@gwm.sc.edu
>>
>>
>>
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--
Mike McCallister, Ph. D.
 Director, Research and Sponsored Programs
University of Arkansas at Little Rock
2801 South University
Little Rock, AR 72204-1099
(v) 501-569-8474
(f) 501-371-7614
(c) 501-590-5609

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I've found it!), but 'That's funny...'"
 ~ Isaac Asimov

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 Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including
 subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
 via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists")
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