We still require an internal budget with enough information to determine F&A. We have provided a spreadsheet "tool" that has embedded the correct fringe, F&A, and annual "inflation" increment, and in addition shows mean annual TDC in large numbers so the PI can "cut and fit" to get to modular amounts easily. Some PI's love it, while others couldn't be bothered. It's "Current Rates Modular Budget" at http://views.vcu.edu/ospa/budgetsheet.htm. Chuck At 04:14 PM 11/20/01 -0500, Keith Williams wrote: >Steve, > >Obviously, they have to do some kind of budget to determine the number of >modules. And by doing that, they will know whether they need to budget >equipment and deduct it from the F&A base. We've instructed them that >they are responsible for determining the base and calculating F&A, and >that we can't check it if we don't have a detailed budget! Because of the >culture here and a lack of resources, PI's are fairly experienced in >budgeting, and they're willing to accept responsibility for any shortfalls. > >I know it may sound crazy (and it is just a trial period that we agreed >to), but as I said, in this scenario the burden is on the >PI/Department. This is what the faculty and deans want. We're here to >assist them and answer questions, but I guess we also just have to have >some faith in them. Keith > > >Keith Williams >Associate Director, Office of >Sponsored Programs >Georgia State University >404-651-4352 >xxxxxx@langate.gsu.edu > > > > >>> xxxxxx@BC.EDU 11/20/01 02:52PM >>> >In priniciple I agree with the idea of never requiring things the sponsor >does not require. On the other hand, if a reasonably detailed budget is >not done, how do you arrive at the MTDC in order to calculate the proposed >F&A costs? > >Steve > >Keith Williams wrote: > > > Roberta, > > > > We have just changed the policy at my institution: for a trial period, > we will not require faculty to submit detailed budgets with modular > proposals. This is the way they wanted to go, so we struck a deal. The > responsibility for using the correct fringe rates and requesting an > adequate number of modules will rest with the PI/Department. We are a > small school with a minimal sponsored programs staff, so we divert some > administrative burden to the faculty anyway (or at least we try to) out > of necessity. Of course, we still offer any assistance they might need > with budget calculations. At the time of award, we will require a > correct, detailed budget before releasing funds. > > > > In my personal opinion, it is hard to justify requiring something (a > budget) that the agency does not, and, in either scenario, the PI is > ultimately the person who should best know what funds are required for > the proposed science. As with other "just in time" elements such as > updated Other Support and IRB approval, the PI can supply the budget once > (s)he knows that funding is likely. > > > > >"Roberta C. Nary" wrote: > > > > > >> We are looking at our current procedure that requires PI's to submit > a line > > >> item budget for internal purposes, when submitting a modular grant > > >> application. We are contemplating streamlining this process to eliminate > > >> the line item budget request at the time of application, but rather > provide > > >> it at the time of the award. At the time of submission they would be > > >> required to provide the modular amount for year 1 and the out years, > > >> identify costs that affect the amount of the module, that is if > there is an > > >> increase/decrease in the modular request from one year to the next, and > > >> identify costs that affect the F&A calculation. > > >> > > >> We be interested to hear from both sides, that is, those who do > require an > > >> internal budget at the time of application and those who do not > require an > > >> internal budget at the time of application. For those of you who do not > > >> require an internal budget at the time of application, I would be > > >> interested in knowing how it works at your institution. > > >> > > >> Thank you > > >> > > >> Roberta C. Nary, CRA > > >> Director > > >> Office of Sponsored Programs MS 116 > > >> Brandeis University > > >> 781 736/2119 > > >> 781 736/2123 > > >> > > >> >========================== > > >====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") >====================================================================== Herbert B. Chermside, CRA Director, Sponsored Programs Administration Virginia Commonwealth University PO BOX 980568 Richmond, VA 23298-0568 Express Delivery Only: Sanger Hall, Rm. 1-032A 11th & Marshall Streets Richmond, VA 23219 Voice: 804-828-6772 Fax 804-828-2521 OFFICE e-mail xxxxxx@VCU.EDU Personal e-mail xxxxxx@vcu.edu http://views.vcu.edu/ospa/ ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ======================================================================
