We do not open accounts without an operating budget. Under our generic IPAS system, it is easy to change the budget (e-mail, memo, etc.) at any time. Good business would dictate that an institution get a budget at the time the proposal is submitted. The modular award saves NIH time and money but doesn't do much for the rest of us. Brad Quinn Director, Project Support Office Director, CENTER for Grant and Contract Studies University of Oklahoma 660 Parrington Oval, Room 324 Norman, OK 73019 (405) 325-7091 voice (405) 325-0165 fax xxxxxx@ou.edu -----Original Message----- From: Herbert B. Chermside [mailto:xxxxxx@VCU.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 2:41 PM To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG Subject: Re: NIH Modular Grant Indirect Cost Calculation The fundamental problem is that the program and award side of NIH wanted simplicity in the award, while the accounting and audit minded did not get persuaded to change language related to allowabilty. There are a lot of conceptual positives, especially for program folk and PI's (while wearing their scientist hats). but getting only half the equation changed creates negatives for administrators: complexity, and an increased perception by faculty members of bureaucratic obstructionism. So, what's new? We have developed a useful budget preparation tool for PI's: a spread sheet that displays the average annual TDC in big numbers. We ask the PI to use that in preparing the budget; we emphasize the advantage of "cut and try" in developing the budget. Every number needed for filling in blanks required for the modular budget proposal is there. Then we ask the PI to bring a copy of the spread sheet with the proposal for review. We can review that budget in a flash, because we know the right assumptions and relationships are built in. Look at it at http://views.vcu.edu/ospa/budgetsheet.htm We can provide a copy on request, with the security code (which locks the standard rates in) removed. Chuck At 10:22 AM 1/24/01 -0500, you wrote: >We also require our investigators to submit a detailed budget for the first >year and entire period. This allows the investigator to think about his or >her project and create a detailed plan for the personnel and >supplies/equipment needed. It allows the grants office to comment on the >budget and see how it relates to the study. Also, if the study is funded, >both the investigator and the grants office have a written budget for the >project. > >Of course, it is useful for calculating the IDC, especially if the >institution has a rate based on only salaries and wages or if there is >capital equipment included in the budget. > >We take the IDC and add it to the total module, i.e.. Module = $100,000, >IDC = $38,432. So Direct = 100,000 Total = $138,432 > >Alex >Winthrop-University Hospital > >-----Original Message----- >From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG]On Behalf >Of Jon Hart >Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:32 AM >To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG >Subject: Re: NIH Modular Grant Indirect Cost Calculation > > >Julia, >This is exactly the Catch 22 of the modular grant application. You have to >know the budget to calculate the indirect costs, but NIH doesn't want to >know, and if NIH doesn't want to know there may be resistance from your >investigators when you ask them to supply a detailed budget. Yes, you do >indeed have to make the calculation the same as you would a "regular" >budget, subtracting equipment, patient care costs, etc., according to your >indirect cost agreement. (N.B. - NIH doesn't want to know not because they >don't want you to figure the budget, but because they don't want the peer >review committee to concentrate on the budget at the expense of the >science; at least this is how it was explained to me by an NIH rep.) > >We have solved this problem (so far) by asking our investigators to >continue to supply us with a budget. We have posted a "modular grant >budget worksheet" on our web page which asks for the following for each >year of the proposed budget: >dates of the proposed study >each person to be paid from the grant and % effort (we figure out the >salary from this); >a total for each NIH budget line (consultants, supplies, equipment, etc.) >We have a button on the bottom of the page that will automatically e-mail >the budget to us. >If the investigator prefers to give us hard copy, we ask them to fill out >the NIH budget sheets (forms DD and EE of the 398 kit). >Not only do we need to know the budget to figure the indirect costs, we >also have to make sure that the investigator is asking for enough money to >cover all the salaries and other expenses -- a guesstimate on his/her part >is not good enough for us. We also have to be able to set up the budget, >once awarded, in our accounting system, which requires a line item >breakdown. >We haven't had much trouble with our faculty about this. > >Hope this helps. >Joni. > > > > > >At 04:04 PM 1/23/01 -0500, you wrote: > >I would like to know how some of you calculate your Indirect Cost Rate on > >NIH modular grants. Basically I'm getting some conflicting information. > >Since the budgets are simplied to increments of $25,000, I believe that you > >would use your negotiated IDC rate on the Total Direct Costs [i.e >requesting > >$50,000 Direct Costs X .40 IDC rate = $70,000 Total Request], then after > >award, the IDC would be adjusted as needed per the detailed budget. [We > >normally calculate our IDC based on Total Modified Direct Costs.] > >However some say that I need to subtract the equipment and contractual > >amount before calculating on the grant. To me, this is defeating the > >purpose of the modular budget. > > > >I realize this is simple, but any feedback for a rookie is appreciated. > >Thanks. > > > > > >Julia G. Borchers > >Grants & Contract Specialist > >Marshall University Research Corporation > > > > > >====================================================================== > > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") > >====================================================================== > >Jon Hart, Director, Sponsored Programs Administration >The Rockefeller University >1230 York Ave.-Box 82, NY, NY 10021-6399 >tel: (212) 327-8054; fax: (212) 327-8400 > > >====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") >====================================================================== > > >====================================================================== > Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including > subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available > via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") >====================================================================== Herbert B. Chermside, CRA Director, Sponsored Programs Administration Virginia Commonwealth University PO BOX 980568 Richmond, VA 23298-0568 Express Delivery Only: Sanger Hall, Rm. 1-073 11th & Marshall Streets Richmond, VA 23219 Voice: 804-828-6772 Fax 804-828-2521 OFFICE e-mail xxxxxx@VCU.EDU Personal e-mail xxxxxx@vcu.edu http://views.vcu.edu/ospa/ ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ======================================================================
