Yes!  Chuck is right.  It certainly is not just semantics here and I misspoke on the payroll issue.  My point was that regardless of the different accounting mechanisms for handling postdoc "trainees" vs. postdoc "workers" (stipend, salary, FICA, etc) an institution can strive to make "life" the same for all postdocs.

At 10:47 AM 12/27/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Let me add a special warning to Charlie's note:  If you use the payroll
>system as a mechanism for distributing fellowship stipends, be extremely
>careful that all involved, including senior research and finance
>executives, understand that these stipends are not payments for services
>rendered.  Stipends must be treated differently from salaries and wages for
>tax and other purposes.  Having different names for these positions is a
>major help.
>
>"War story" in point:  Some years ago a new governor's first action was to
>cut all salaries of state employees by 5%.  Because my employing state
>university did use payroll to distribute stipends, these were cut also.  It
>took a threat of having all NIH funds cut off (because NIH set the stipend
>levels and reducing them would violate those grants systematically) to make
>administration realize that stipends are not for services rendered, and
>were not subject to the governor's fiat.  In the process of resolving that
>mix-up, the institution created a commentary which can be trotted out any
>time someone tries to use the test that "post-doctoral researchers" and
>"post-doctoral fellows" work side by side in the lab doing the same things
>as a proof that stipends are the same as salaries and wages.
>
>Chuck
>
>
>
>At 10:10 AM 12/27/00 -0500, you wrote:
>>Roberta-
>>
>>We use the term "research associate" as a job title for payroll
>>purposes.  The vast majority (all?) of these people are in "post-doctoral"
>>status.  The term "post doc" is often elongated to "postdoctoral fellow"
>>but the latter may suggest that the person has formally received a
>>fellowship.  It is probably a good idea to administratively categorize all
>>post docs (i.e. non-faculty research/academic staff holding doctoral level
>>degrees) in the same way so they get the same benefits and to recognize
>>their common plight.  They can be paid differently according to
>>experience, source of funds, etc.
>>
>>Charlie
>>
>>At 09:26 AM 12/27/00 -0500, you wrote:
>> >We are in the process of drafting a postdoc policy.  We want to describe
>> >what the term post doc is and what the term research associate is and also
>> >what the differences are between the two.  If anyone could offer any help
>> >with this, it would be greatly appreciated.
>> >
>> >Roberta
>> >
>> >Roberta C. Nary, CRA
>> >Director
>> >Office of Sponsored Programs
>> >(781) 736-2119
>> >(781) 736-2123 fax
>> >
>> >
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>Herbert B. Chermside, CRA
>Director, Sponsored Programs Administration
>Virginia Commonwealth University
>PO BOX 980568
>Richmond, VA  23298-0568
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