Back to the original question. I would say, yes- it matters if the listings are in reverse chronological order. It may not get the proposal rejected but it shows they cannot follow instructions (Maryellen O’Brien, thank you).
I would also point out that NIH would not have spent time preparing us for the change, sending numerous reminders about the change and investing time in talking about the change at NIH conferences, etc unless they wanted the change. I heard from one of my faculty that is a reviewer on NIH study sections that this is something reviewers have specifically asked for, for several years.
Colleen
Colleen O’Connor LaBorde, CRA
Authorized Organization Representative
Research Liaison Officer
University of Houston
College of Optometry
J. Davis Armistead Building, Room 2195
4401 Martin Luther King Boulevard
E-mail: xxxxxx@Central.UH.EDU
Office: 713-743-4358
From: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org <xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org> On Behalf Of Michael Spires
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 2:21 PM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Subject: RE: [RESADM-L] NIH Biosketch question
Yes. One of the first (and hardest) lessons I learned in this business is that sometimes you just have to accept that there are investigators who are their own worst enemies, and that nothing you can possibly do or say will ever convince them that you know what you’re talking about. The only thing to do in such cases is get out of the way of the impending train wreck after, as you and Colleen both noted, documenting that you warned them that their pet idea could end badly for them and they still insisted on going ahead with it.
Michael
(He/him/his)(248) 370-2207
The best way to get in touch with me continues to be via email: I am working a hybrid schedule.
Oakland University resides on the ancestral, traditional, and contemporary lands of the Anishinaabe, known as the Three Fires Confederacy, composed of the Ojibwe, Odawa, and Potawatomi. The land was ceded in the 1807 Treaty of Detroit and makes up southeast Michigan.
From: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org <xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org> On Behalf Of Cao, Susan
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 15:04
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Subject: RE: [RESADM-L] NIH Biosketch question
I had one of those faculty long ago, but it was on something FAR more important than the biosketch.
I had a PI insist on submitting his competitive renewal with 1.5 line spacing “to make it easier for the reviewers” which of course resulted in that section being half again as many pages as allowed of course. I told him, repeatedly, that NIH would reject it long before any reviewer saw it…but no he insisted. And I cc’d the emails to his boss to cover myself.
He lost his 25 year NIH award as a result of that and a couple of other issues he had with following the rules they insist on.
Susan
From: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org <xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org> On Behalf Of LaBorde, Colleen M
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 11:48 AM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Subject: RE: [RESADM-L] NIH Biosketch question
[This email originated from outside of OSU. Use caution with links and attachments.]
To piggyback off Michael, I had a PI who insisted on listing too many citation in his biosketch. Told me it didn’t matter to NIH. I told him, that was fine if he refused to change it, I would still submit it but if it got rejected by NIH because of this one administrative variance from the guidelines I would be able to tell the Associate Dean of Research that I made the PI aware of the requirement, he refused, I insisted and he again refused. Then told him the Associate Dean of Research would also ask him why it was rejected. Is a small administrative requirement worth risking rejection without review? Totally up to him. And yes, I did it all in writing.
Colleen
From: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org <xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org> On Behalf Of Michael Spires
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 10:41 AM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Subject: RE: [RESADM-L] NIH Biosketch question
What I tell my PIs is that while NIH might let it slide (I’ve seen it happen), the guidelines call for it to be that way, and they might just as easily not let it slide. So I usually insist that they fix it (or, more commonly, fix it myself and send them back an updated version).
Michael Spires, M.A., M.S., CRA
(He/him/his)Research Development Officer
The Research Office
Oakland University
256 Hannah Hall
(248) 370-2207
Past President, National Organization of Research Development Professionals
The best way to get in touch with me continues to be via email: I am working a hybrid schedule.
Oakland University resides on the ancestral, traditional, and contemporary lands of the Anishinaabe, known as the Three Fires Confederacy, composed of the Ojibwe, Odawa, and Potawatomi. The land was ceded in the 1807 Treaty of Detroit and makes up southeast Michigan.
From: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org <xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org> On Behalf Of Savransky, Marina
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 11:32
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Subject: [RESADM-L] NIH Biosketch question
Does anyone know if it really matters if positions/honors in Section B of the NIH Biosketch are in reverse chronological order? Im always asking PIs/Co-Is to update the order, or doing it myself, but I wonder if it really matters in review.
Love to hear your thoughts
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