Add another zero before the decimal on each of those and you might make some progress!

Susan

From: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org <xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org> On Behalf Of Joel Fritzler
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2022 2:16 PM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Cc: Paul Tuttle <xxxxxx@hanoverresearch.com>
Subject: RE: [RESADM-L] workload and late-night, last-minute proposals, monetize the non-compliance

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Perhaps you could monetize any non-conformance/compliance to the deadline policy by adding to the policy something like:

“The Office of Sponsored Projects (OSP) will gladly work beyond the stated work schedule in the deadline policy of 8:00 am to 5:00 pm Mon. to Fri. for $50.00/hour from 6:00 pm to midnight Mon. to Thurs., $70.00/hour from midnight to 8:00 am Tues. to Fri., $100/hour from 5:00 pm on Friday to 8:00 am on Monday, $200/hour on holidays or the OSP staff member’s birthday, and $500/hour during the OSP staff member’s scheduled vacation. Such an arrangement will be in writing, stating the account to be charged, and approved with the signatures of the PI and the PI’s Chair and/or Dean.”

Just a thought,

Joel

Joel Fritzler, Grant Coordinator

Coconino Community College

From: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org <xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org> On Behalf Of Margaret B Ewell
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2022 1:48 PM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Cc: Paul Tuttle <xxxxxx@hanoverresearch.com>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [RESADM-L] workload and late-night, last-minute proposals

George Mason University implemented a 4-day deadline policy 2 years ago. If we do not get a ready to review package 4 business days before sponsor deadline (not inclusive of sponsor due date, which we deem a submission only day), the faculty must get their Associate Dean of Research Approval for OSP to continue. Additionally, the Vice President of Research (typically delegated to the Associate Vice President of Research Services) must concur. We saw compliance go from about 40% to 85-90% (with the same repeat offenders making up that 10-15%) .

Here is our policy. https://osp.gmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/Internal-Proposal-Deadline-Policy-082520.pdf

Its not perfect, but it did go through our Research Council and had full support from all Deans. We do tend to see most ADRs approve the exceptions, but many have stepped up and asked a lot of questions and indicated first time only and that resulted in improvement in much of the faculty.

I, along with our Associate VP, have also emphasized that OSP operates business hours, so if a proposal is due at 11:59, we expect to submit it by 5 pm. Does my team work late sometimes? Yes. And do we do odd hours for NATO or Korea proposals? Occasionally, But for the most part we continually emphasize that OSP is available roughly 8:30 – 5, not nights, not weekend.

Good luck – it’s a tough problem.

Maggie

Maggie Ewell, MPP, CRA

Director, Pre Award

Office of Sponsored Programs

George Mason University

Pronouns: she, her, hers

From: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org <xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org> On Behalf Of Kozma, Laura B.
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2022 4:32 PM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Cc: Paul Tuttle <xxxxxx@hanoverresearch.com>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [RESADM-L] workload and late-night, last-minute proposals

Hi All,

We successfully implemented a hard deadline policy. Proposals must be in three business days before the deadline or you must get approval from me. I only make exceptions in very limited circumstances (2-3 per month) and it is typically for something outside of the PIs control or personal emergency (death in the family, sub site very delayed in submitting materials to us, etc). Policy requires everything in final form except science can be in draft which is due to my office at noon on the deadline day (for 5pm deadlines) or the day before (deadlines earlier than 5pm). Any instance of non-conformance to policy requires my approval. I was able to secure full support from senior leadership and gave people a huge amount of notice with lots of reminders before we started holding the line. I have absolutely said no more than once.

Laura

Laura Kozma

Associate Vice President

Office of Research Administration

Office of the Vice Provost for Research and Scholarship

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1320 S. Dixie Hwy

Suite 650

Coral Gables, FL 33146

(305) 284-3965

xxxxxx@miami.edu

From: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org <xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org> On Behalf Of Cao, Susan
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2022 4:22 PM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Cc: Paul Tuttle <xxxxxx@hanoverresearch.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [RESADM-L] workload and late-night, last-minute proposals

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the organization. DO NOT CLICK ON LINKS or OPEN ATTACHMENTS unless you know and trust the sender.

We ALL feel your pain, Chantal. My longest one was 32 straight hours without sleep to get one in on-time because I was the proposal manager, not the SOP submitter and I knew that I had to get to right because they wouldn’t even have time to look.

There are two ways to approach this, depending on what support you can expect from University leadership. Either way no more late nights!

You try and submit whatever they give you, as-is, no time outside work hours making corrections right by the deadline. Then when it gets returned without review or will not submit in the portal due to errors it is all on them and may and may alter future behavior. Note, the agency may contact you with intent to award if corrections are made then (yup, seen it happen) because they really, REALLY want to fund that project.

You draw the line that nothing gets submitted by your University without adequate time for a review to make sure that the PI is not committing the University to anything they don’t have the right to. That is a tough sell to the higher ups though for the exact issue I mentioned above, sometimes the messy ones are great projects.

Susan

Susan Cao, Proposal Manager – xxxxxx@oregonstate.edu

Oregon State University | College of Engineering Research Administration |

509-432-9386 (permanent remote location: Pullman, WA)

Reach me on Microsoft Teams for quick responses

From: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org <xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2022 1:07 PM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Cc: Paul Tuttle <xxxxxx@hanoverresearch.com>
Subject: RE: [RESADM-L] workload and late-night, last-minute proposals

[This email originated from outside of OSU. Use caution with links and attachments.]

Chantal,

I feel your pain. That said, in a way this is like that TV show “Supernanny”—if you want to see different behavior, you’ll have to set parameters and stick to them. (With 2- and 3-year-olds, you can see a change in a week, per that show. Unfortunately, the jury is still out as to how long it takes for similar changes to take hold in adults. It’s true that we’re fairly set in our ways.)

If I were you, I’d sit down and ask the team what’s possible, in terms of the services you can provide. (Resources have limits, so that’s where you might want to start.)

Then, I’d figure out what’s possible in terms of timeframes and what the faculty members need. (That helps you create the bare bones of the soon-to-be-created “proposal development timeline policy” or “procedure” or similar. You may or may not want input or feedback from faculty during this process, depending. If I were you, I’d involve faculty members in this discussion. Frame it as “we want to help you, but we’re running out of resources—time, people, etc.”)

Next, I’d consider messaging. You’re not reducing services, you’re just constricting the hours in which you provide them (your normal working hours, whatever those are). This means that faculty members will need to become more “planners” and “proactive problems-solvers” and less “last-minute.” (You’ll want to say the former, not the latter, of course. Honey, not vinegar; carrot, not stick. But a polite but firm adherence to the new timeframes, nevertheless.)

Finally, I’d consider what support you have from senior administrators. How can they help you with the messaging? How can they help you enforce the new timeframes/parameters?

Best,

Paul

P.S. There are recurring discussions regarding this same issue in the RESADM-L archives, which are searchable. (See the link at the bottom of every email posted to this listserv.)

A summary: Different institutions have instituted policies in which they required the final version of the proposal to be available for routing and approval a certain number of days or weeks prior to the sponsor deadline; others have allowed faculty members to continue to play with the science until 2-3 days prior to the deadline, as long as a reasonable representative draft (“reasonable” as defined by their policy) has been circulated within an institutionally acceptable timeframe for routing and approval.

Still other institutions have provided timeframes within which they can provide a certain level of services, e.g., if the faculty member submits the final version two weeks out, they receive the most intensive level of review, but if the faculty member submits a week out, the review becomes less intense, and then if the final version is received in OSP within the final 2-3 days prior to the sponsor deadline, the OSP team can only review minimally and package and send it out—with the caveat that if upon review after submission OSP finds elements that are detrimental to the institution in some way (e.g., offering cost matching without having received approval to do so), OSP can administratively withdraw the proposal per their professional judgment.

Best of luck!

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From: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org <xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org> On Behalf Of Chantal Ebarle
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2022 3:15 PM
To: xxxxxx@lists.healthresearch.org
Subject: [RESADM-L] workload and late-night, last-minute proposals

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Hanover Research. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

Hello Research Administrators,

Warning: I have a big long complex problem that we created and now we need help getting out of it. I plead for all of you to contribute anything you may be aware of that can help. You can respond to me directly at xxxxxx@csueastbay.edu I thank you in advance!

Scenario: Our pre-award team (myself and a newly trained analyst) were up until 9pm (pacific time = midnight eastern time) the last 2 nights to submit 2 different DOE RENEW proposals because we were the prime. We have always discouraged after hour, last-minute submissions but we realize faculty don’t care how late we are up working as long as their proposal gets submitted. We analyzed recent scenarios leading up to last minute submissions, and it is always because pre-award does not have all the requirements to submit a complete application until close to the deadline.

We request a minimum of 30 days to coordinate a proposal before it is due but we are often sent final docs within an hour or so of a deadline. (we harass and ask but faculty are almost done…) There is no consideration for our “workday” or if the deadline is 5pm, 8pm, or 11:59:59pm.

We (ORSP) have stated we don’t want to be notified if there is less then a week before deadline but faculty beg and promise “it’s a resubmission, I already have all the documents done & this is so important for students”. (they don’t realize all those revisions that are needed with resubmits ) Also: we (pre-award) do not have a limit or capacity for the number of proposals that can be accomplished in a set amount of time. Meaning, we take them all and try our hardest to get them done which means mediocre service.

I admit 100% that we (ORSP) is at fault for building this environment and not setting limits because we have always tried our hardest to accommodate everyone but now the rare “last minute special exception” is becoming the everyday norm and we need to put a stop to it. People are taking advantage of us and instead of having family time after work, that time at home gets spent with faculty over zoom.

I have several questions and would love any advice, policies or guidance you can provide on the subject. They will all be shared within our department so we can build our own policy that works. Any decisions we make will be supported from cabinet but we would like to know what works for you?

We do NOT want to discourage faculty from writing proposals but we can’t keep up with the current workload we have. We are trying to hire multiple positions but that’s been unsuccessful. We really need any guidance you can provide. Please answer as many as possible:

Do you put a limit on pre-award analyst regarding how many proposals can be worked on at once? What is that limit? What happens when you push those limits ? Do you reject faculty until after submissions? I understand rare last-minute submissions are part of our job but how do you define rare? How often is it allowed and within what timeframe can faculty make that request? Who gets to decide when/if your pre-award staff will work and will not get to attend their kids’ school performance? (I bet that’s bad for retention)How do you explain declining faculty to Deans that demand an answer? How do you create balance to be fair for faculty and ORSP staff?

Do you have a proposal “deadline” or timeline policy/ guidance that is respected and enforced? How is it enforced?

When you have been working with a PI and your internal deadline is (for example) noon- but you don’t have everything- what do you do? Use draft versions? Scold the PI but accept late docs? Or completely stop working on proposal and say its not getting submitted? How do you enforce your rules so they are followed?

Do you allow revisions to budget the night before the deadline? (which means revisions to several other documents to match) How do you manage getting proposal pieces in advance to avoid late nights? What do you handle not getting documents you need from PI’s when you request them? Is it any different for subawards?

We want clear rules in black and white so faculty know they can’t skip to the front of the proposal line when “they just found out about this opportunity due in 5 days”.

Our research has really amped up lately and we just received R2 classification. We need to set rules in place so we are efficient and everyone understands what is expected of them and what won’t be tolerated. Any advice you can provide would help set us up for success. I would be interested in hearing what didn’t work too so maybe we can avoid making that mistake as well.

To everyone I have provided half ass service to lately due to “workload”: that wasn’t an excuse. I really am looking for answers.

I’m grateful to have this community that is always willing to help each other.

I look forward to hearing from you,

Chantal Ebarle

Chantal Ebarle

Senior Pre-Award Specialist

Office of Research & Sponsored Programs

California State University, East Bay

510-885-4239

Click here to rate our interaction or my customer service.

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