Ohhhh, that's a good thought Carolyn, thank you. I hadn't considered that option, but we have done that once before years ago (with NSF and the same department, come to think of it!), so there's a precedent set that I can call upon if need be.

I've emailed the policy office regarding the option of taking the 10% de minimis too, which I am sure, as Michael said, they will say no to. But it's worth a shot and I'll let everyone know if they say yes. The fact that there are two organizations between us and the original award from NSF likely will not make a difference but maybe they'll say something like "this is not a question that NSF would address and you are expected to follow your own internal policies" - our stated internal policy is that if a funder provides indirect costs, you have to budget for the maximum allowable... unless it is known that would jeopardize the review of the proposal.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 1:31 PM Carolyn Elliott-Farino <xxxxxx@kennesaw.edu> wrote:

Remember that you can charge full indirects and then dedicate/plough them back into the project. You don’t have to charge faculty time (we know NSF considers research part of the workload), but you could make sure the home department received a commensurate share of indirects. There are ways to budget with full indirects. What you might need to do is see how much funding the 2nd tier has and then see if you can do the work for that amount, full IDC included, keeping in mind about the distribution of the indirects. You’ve already said the budget is limited, though, so this may be a business decision about whether the project is worth it. Your direct cost budget also has to be reasonable and demonstrate you can do the work for that amount of money. Also, NSF will have to approve you as a subrecipient on the project so be prepared to wait.

 

Carolyn

 

Carolyn Elliott-Farino

Director, Pre-awards

Office of Research

Kennesaw State University

xxxxxx@kennesaw.edu

470-578-6381

 

 

 

From: Research Administration List <xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG> On Behalf Of Michael Spires
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2021 1:18 PM
To: xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [RESADM-L] flow down of de minimis IDC rate

 

Yes, there is a requirement: 2 CFR 200.414(c)(1), which says that federal agencies must accept institutions’ negotiated rates unless (a) a federal law or regulation requires a different  rate or (b) when the agency director determines, in accordance with a stipulated process, that a different rate is appropriate – and that other rate must be specified in the solicitation. (In other words, they can’t spring it on you after the fact.)

 

Plus, NSF will absolutely refuse to allow reducing the IDC rate. Happened to me  once.

 

At another institution, we were part of a long-running S-STEM consortium. Years before I arrived, all of the parties in the consortium had agreed to forego a certain portion of their negotiated IDC rate, to free up more funding for the scholarships and  other functions of the project.  NSF hadn’t batted an eyelid about that for several renewal cycles, so when the time came to put in the next renewal, all the participating institutions did what they’d done every other time, and budgeted at the agreed-upon, reduced rates.

 

When NSF recommended the renewal for funding, the Division of Grants and Agreements said “Whoa, Nellie! Everybody has to take their full negotiated IDC rate, or that’s voluntary committed cost-sharing which isn’t allowed per the PAPPG. And you have to do that within the agreed-upon award amount. There won’t be any additional funds to make up the loss.”

 

Michael Spires, M.A., M.S., CRA
(He/him/his)

Research Development Officer

The Research Office

Oakland University

256 Hannah Hall

244 Meadow Brook Road

Rochester, MI 48309-4451

(248) 370-2207

xxxxxx@oakland.edu

Past President, National Organization of Research Development Professionals

 

Oakland University has taken steps to slow the spread of COVID-19. Nevertheless, the Research Office is available to faculty and staff for all the research development, proposal submission, and award management services that we routinely provide; please reach out to us through email (first preference) or phone. 

 

From: Research Administration List <xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG> On Behalf Of Lindsey Demeritt
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2021 12:34
To: xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] flow down of de minimis IDC rate

 

I realize that I may be on other side of this, but while most federal agencies don’t allow voluntary cost sharing as part of the proposal process, I don’t believe that there is a regulation that requires that you charge your full indirect cost rate. Now either the national science foundation or an auditor may ask why you chose to reduce, but institutionally I believe that you can make that determination through whatever your waiver process would be. And if organizationally, you decide but it’s in the best interest of the project end of the institution to reduce your indirect rate for a federal sponsor, I don’t think that that is some thing that is an allowable or unreasonable. I think where you get into trouble is if you try to offer that 10% rate to a corporate sponsor when you would normally charge your negotiated rate to a federal one.

 

 

Lindsey 

 

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 10:28 AM Kris Wolff <xxxxxx@fordham.edu> wrote:

Thanks all, for your thoughts -- the prime is indeed NSF and does not allow cost sharing.

 

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 10:41 AM Ryan Vann <xxxxxx@outlook.com> wrote:

Typically, institutions would have internal IDC waiver processes, and have to go through those procedures. Some institutions prefer to offer institutional funds as a sort of cost sharing for IDC negotiation concerns. 

 

I'd want to know who the prime sponsor is in this case. For instance, the NSF doesn't allow voluntary cost sharing, and neither an IDC reduction or cost share approach would be viable

From: Research Administration List <xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG> on behalf of Kris Wolff <xxxxxx@FORDHAM.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 4:57 PM
To: xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG <xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG>
Subject: [RESADM-L] flow down of de minimis IDC rate

 

Hi Folks, 

We've been approached by an organization who is a subawardee on a federal award to potentially be a third-tier subawardee to them. They've already been notified about their award by the prime grantee, so this is after the fact. 

 

We've got a negotiated IDC rate, they do not, and were given the 10% de minimis.

 

The budget is limited and we're wondering if we can take the 10% rate as well. 

 

I know that the de minimis is not meant to be a de facto rate, in general... but if our direct funder is only getting 10%, it doesn't seem equitable for us to get our much higher rate. Additionally, since the budget is already set, any indirect costs we receive have to be backed out of the total that's available.

 

Has anyone run into this issue and if so how did you justify taking the lower rate, for audit purposes?

 

Thanks for your thoughts and guidance.

Best,

Kris

 

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Director, Office of Sponsored Programs

Co-Director, University Research Compliance Council

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I am working remotely; please email me rather than call.

 

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--

Kris Wolff, MA, CRA (she/her)
Director, Office of Sponsored Programs

Co-Director, University Research Compliance Council

Research Compliance Officer

I am working remotely; please email me rather than call.

 

Do you have questions about research administration policies at Fordham?

 

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--
Kris Wolff, MA, CRA (she/her)
Director, Office of Sponsored Programs
Co-Director, University Research Compliance Council
Research Compliance Officer
I am working remotely; please email me rather than call.

Do you have questions about research administration policies at Fordham?

To unsubscribe from the RESADM-L list, click the following link:
http://lists.healthresearch.org/scripts/wa-HLTHRES.exe?SUBED1=RESADM-L&A=1