Keep in mind, as well, that all does not go as planned in research. If you budget six subs for three years and try to split the IDC evenly, what happens when the research doesn’t work out
as planned and your PI decides to terminate two of the subs in year two, and start two new sites, instead? IDC is an actual cost that is sunk into the work long before you get reimbursed. It makes sense to recover that cost as quickly as you can.
I would suggest that there are less risky, programmatic ways to describe the budget that will be better at slipping you in under the budget cap. Generally, startup time on a project with six
subs will be an issue, anyway. It would make a certain amount of sense that there would be a 10% lag in initial direct cost spending in such a case. Also, keep in mind that pre-award spending between years is available on nearly all continuous federal grant
projects, even when there is no carryover, so whatever the budget says nominally, the work should be able to continue as it needs to if you run out of funds near the end of the first year (assuming you institution is willing to approve it internally).
To me, there are cleaner, simpler, less risky ways to work around this problem than to tinker with a federally negotiated rate agreement.
-Adam
Adam Kuehn
Grants Manager
Duke University Biomedical Engineering
919-660-5945
xxxxxx@duke.edu
From: Research Administration List <xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG>
On Behalf Of Michael Spires
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2020 3:16 PM
To: xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] [External]Re: [RESADM-L] Spreading IDC from subs evenly across a multi year budget?
In the words often attributed to medieval maps, “Here there be dragons.” As I often tell investigators as we’re building a proposal and a budget to match it, attempting to get too creative when it comes to grant
guidelines (especially at the federal level) or administrative rules often leads to front-page headlines you don’t want to add to your press clippings file (and sometimes to the wearing of orange jumpsuits).
Of all the categories to adjust while trying to get down to or under a budget cap, indirects would be last on my list. There’s just too much fuss and bother. And while an auditor might not care about undercharging
on F&A, it’s better than even money that a grants management specialist and/or program officer would. Especially at the feds, the program staff are paying increasingly close attention to burn rates, and people who aren’t spending in the ways they anticipated
are often subjected to heightened scrutiny. Do that often enough, and your investigator may find it hard to secure funding from that sponsor on a consistent basis in the long term. The Department of Energy is notorious for this – to the point that you have
to jump through hoops with them to be allowed to invoice quarterly when the indirects don’t exactly match up with the directs for some reason (such as buying a piece of equipment, even if the equipment was in the proposed-and-approved budget).
In the 13+ years I’ve been in this business, I’ve seen numerous examples, at multiple institutions, of budgets that included subawards that didn’t reach to $25,000 in the first year, and consequently the indirect
recovery spanned two or more years until either that threshold was finally reached or the work on the sub was completed and the project was closed out, whichever came first. I’ve never seen an example of a prime recipient voluntarily spreading out the indirects
when they could have taken them all in the first year. I can see why doing so might be attractive: given that the reason we can take indirects on the first $25k of a sub is because of all the responsibilities we have for monitoring and oversight of the work
the sub is doing, and the need to coordinate with the sub on reporting, etc. Not all of that gets done in the first year, and it would be nice to be able to recoup some of the costs in the out years. But I’d feel a lot more comfortable proposing it if there
were a body of examples I could point to that had also gotten clean audits out of it.
Michael Spires, M.A., M.S., CRA
(He/him/his)
Research Development Officer, Sciences
The Research Office
Oakland University
256 Hannah Hall
244 Meadow Brook Road
Rochester, MI 48309-4451
(248) 370-2207
Past President, National Organization of Research Development Professionals
From: Research Administration List <xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG>
On Behalf Of Shannon Michael Knudsen
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2020 14:37
To: xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] [External]Re: [RESADM-L] Spreading IDC from subs evenly across a multi year budget?
Thanks to all who responded about spreading sub IDC across multiple years in a budget. It gives me good food for thought. I like focusing on the “intent” of the UG with regard to IDC generated on Subs, rather
than the literal wording “first”.
I cannot imagine an auditor citing us for undercharging on IDC from subs, whereas their concern would more likely be focused on overcharging. To this point, I think my University would be more concerned about
the potential of undercharging IDC. For example, if we were to spread the sub IDC charges across three years, rather than charging them against the first $25k of each sub in the first year, and the project was ended after 1 year, we could be at an IDC loss
of $52k if $78k was available to charge, assuming we spent our entire first year budget as budgeted.
As for consistency of charging, it is definitely easier and more consistent to always charge on the first $25k. However, a truer budget from the direct cost perspective can be proposed if one is allowed to spread
the sub IDC across the entire project. Further, we’d still “consistently” be charging IDC on up to $25K for each sub, maintaining the intent of the MTDC allowance for subs.
Has anyone approached the UG for clarification on a matter such as this? Feel free to contact me directly if you have successful examples you’re willing to share.
Thank you!
Best,
Shannon Knudsen
Grant & Project Support Coordinator, CRA
The Pathogen and Microbiome Institute (PMI)
Northern Arizona University
PO Box 4073
Flagstaff, AZ 86011
Tel: (928) 523-4984
“Good, better, best. Never let it rest. ‘Til your good is better, And your better is best!”
— St. Jerome
From: Research Administration List <xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG>
On Behalf Of Browngoetz, Sarah
Sent: Friday, January 3, 2020 10:10 AM
To: xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] [External]Re: [RESADM-L] Spreading IDC from subs evenly across a multi year budget?
This is an interesting discussion and it brought up a question for me.
If you were to spread out the IDC, would you need to do that across all of your awards in order to remain consistent? Isn’t it important to treat like funds the same?
Thanks.
Sarah
From: Research Administration List <xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG>
On Behalf Of Rhea,Lacey N
Sent: Friday, January 3, 2020 5:51 AM
To: xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG
Subject: [External]Re: [RESADM-L] Spreading IDC from subs evenly across a multi year budget?
Caution: This email originated from outside OC. Please be very cautious of links in emails that take you outside the
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This is an interesting question, and my response is somewhat philosophical in nature since I don’t think there is a super clear answer. In terms of
rules as written: the UG definition of MTDC uses the phrase “up to the
first $25,000 of each subaward” and even goes on to say “regardless of the period of performance of the subawards under the award”. It then later says that MTDC excludes “the portion of each subaward
in excess of $25,000”. The more restrictive interpretation is that it has to be on the first $25k spent, and you therefore could not spread it out.
For the sake of this discussion, I’ll add my thoughts to it. If you think about the general intention of the MTDC exclusion for subawards, spreading the IDC out instead of front loading it doesn’t disrupt that
intention. And depending on your accounting system, it is totally doable. At our institution we have two different account codes – one for subawards <$25k (charges IDC), and one for subawards >$25k (does not charge IDC). So in theory, we could accomplish
this just by utilizing our account codes. The real questions are: will both institutions allow it? Is it technically allowable by UG standards? And I’m just not sure. If we’re sticking to the use of the word FIRST, then no; though it seems like a technicality
to me.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Lacey Rhea
|Research Administration Manager|CLAS Department of Physics|University
of Florida|2001 Museum Rd,
NPB Room 2201D|PO Box 118440|Gainesville,
FL 32611|Phone: 352-294-3072|Email:
xxxxxx@ufl.edu
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From: Research Administration List <xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG>
On Behalf Of Michael Spires
Sent: Friday, January 3, 2020 7:36 AM
To: xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Spreading IDC from subs evenly across a multi year budget?
[External Email]
|
You could do that, if some of the subs are small enough that they won’t hit the $25,000 cap in the first year. But if they’re all above that threshold, since IDC follows the direct expenditures, I don’t think
you could reasonably spread out the IDC recovery and would therefore need to adjust some other budget category to keep under the $1 million cap.
Michael Spires, M.A., M.S., CRA
(He/him/his)
Research Development Officer, Sciences
The Research Office
Oakland University
256 Hannah Hall
244 Meadow Brook Road
Rochester, MI 48309-4451
(248) 370-2207
Past President, National Organization of Research Development Professionals
From: Research Administration List <xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG>
On Behalf Of Shannon Michael Knudsen
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2020 16:50
To: xxxxxx@LISTS.HEALTHRESEARCH.ORG
Subject: [RESADM-L] Spreading IDC from subs evenly across a multi year budget?
Dear Colleagues,
Has anyone ever tried to spread IDC generated from the first $25k of subs across multiple years of a budget? Reason being, we have six subs on a three year project and we’re generating $78K IDC in the first year
from the subs alone. We have a $1 million limit (direct + IDC) for each year of the project and the IDCs from the subs in the first year are throwing off the balance of the budget in year 1. It would be tremendously helpful to be able to budget the sub IDCs
across all three years. I’ve never heard of or seen guidance on this, but with the wonders of accounting… Would love to hear opinions on the matter.
Best,
Shannon Knudsen
Grant & Project Support Coordinator, CRA
The Pathogen and Microbiome Institute (PMI)
Northern Arizona University
PO Box 4073
Flagstaff, AZ 86011
Tel: (928) 523-4984
“Good, better, best. Never let it rest. ‘Til your good is better, And your better is best!”
— St. Jerome
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