I specifically asked one of the help desk guys to walk me through how they go about measuring for font sizes at NSF. At the time, Acrobat 6.0 was in use - so I have kept the 6.0 version on my computer so that I could continue to check the font size using his instructions. I haven't been able to duplicate the process on newer versions of Acrobat. But for those of you who still have a 6.0 version on their computer, this is what you can do...
 
Open the document in question in Acrobat.
Click on Tools, then Advanced Editing, then Show Advanced Editing Toolbar.
Click on the Touch Up Text Toolbar.
Now go down to your document and highlight some of the text that you want to test.
Once highlighted, right click and pick Properties.
This brings up a section called TouchUp Properties and the Text folder will show you the font size.
 
Lynn Rollins
University of Southern Maine


>>> Evelyn Ford <xxxxxx@MAIL.MED.UPENN.EDU> 5/22/2007 4:58 PM >>>
Good question. With electronic proposal submission, the font size and other attributes are invisibly embedded at the beginning of a document or anywhere there are changes to the attributes. Of course, that would only eliminate the obvious problems -- like using a 9-pt or forbidden font. My own suspicion is that they get out the ruler if someone has an overall perception that the font is too small or that cpi or lpi is being violated (lpi is easier to determine). So, I'd stay away from using 10-pt fonts, probably wouldn't use 11-pt Times (can't even remember if that one is OK anymore!). I think the safest bet is 11-pt Arial or Georgia if the PI is concerned about space limitations, 12 pts if not. We have had proposals returned for both lpi and cpi issues but admittedly they have been few and far between -- and the problems were obvious so we never bothered to ask what or ! how they measured.

At NIH, the issues of spacing are controlled more at a central location (CSR) and not by the actual study sections. More and more proposals are being bounced back to the PIs (usually fortunately with a 5-day turn-around time to fix the problem). I suspect the days are gone when an individual PI can blatantly violate the restrictions, but I'm sure some get through. Has anyone had different experiences?

-- Evelyn

At 04:29 PM 5/22/2007, you wrote:

Since we're on the subject - how does NSF measure the character pitch, anyway?  Do they apply some kind of grid to the page, or pull out a ruler and count?
 
Some PIs have told me their program isn't concerned with pitch, and others have pointed to proposals that got awarded despite the density of the narrative.  I tell them what an NSF program officer told me, "the idea is to level the playing field". 
 
Marcia Day
Grant and Contract Administrator
Office of Grant and Contract Administration
University of Massachusetts
70 Butterfield Terrace
Amherst MA 01003-9272
 
(413) 545-0674  FAX (413) 577-1595
http://www.umass.edu/research/ogca/proceds.htm

----- Original Message -----

From: Evelyn Ford

To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org

Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:21 PM

....

 if the font police happen to measure and count a paragraph that has a lot of i's and l's and not too many m's and w's, then you're in trouble -- ===

---------------------------------------------------
Evelyn J. Ford
Director, Sponsored Research
Center for Clinical Epidemiology & Biostatistics
School of Medicine, University of Pennsylvania
103C Blockley Hall
423 Guardian Drive
Philadelphia PA 19104-6021
voice 215.573.1360        fax 215.573.5518
xxxxxx@mail.med.upenn.edu
http://www.cceb.upenn.edu/

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