Mike's reference to RA's as "contract administrators" and it points to yet another weirdness in research administration.  We are all in the business, but we are all in slivers of our racket.  We see our piece in our institution and call ourselves by the umbrella term, research administrators and go to the meetings.  Some of us have definite training-- accountants, lawyers, whatever-- pertinent to our work (I'm thinking BB stacking and postaward).  Some of us have degrees in Japanese history, communication, education and all kind of other things and might work in postaward OR preaward depending on talents, experience, aptitude.  We could spend a long time talking training, accreditation, and the like, and we'd still not be able to describe our jobs to our Moms.

I don't think this conundrum is bad in itself, but I do believe the awkwardness we encounter in these discussion points to the way we think about research administration, the way we try to group and characterize ourselves.  We are a field of grays with little at the black or white ends of the continuum and we have to figure this out our own selves.

And we haven't, not concretely enough for some, not fuzzily enough for others.  Common tasks and responsibilities, differing organizations and structure, all this drives our individual jobs.  But we converse like program officers at a briefing, we talk about our jobs, rather than our commonalities.  And, like in bad proposals, when you talk about yourself, you don't get at the problem.   Program officers give BAD briefings and we have the same conversation year after  year.  Who are we?  Whose definition is right?  We do like to be right, after all, we are research administrators.

I've no solution for his, I just wonder if we are thinking about this definition/training/qualifications thing in the right way.  I can't see that anyone has a good handle on any of it quite yet--

Spanky



I think you, Marcia, and a few others, have made a very good point. As
contract administrators we are here to serve the faculty. They are our
"customers". Whatever we can do to understand and help our "customers"
will only help us in doing what we do best.

I came into research administration with no background in it at all. I
came directly from practicing law. As such, I've always viewed our
faculty as customers and do what I can to help them get or retain the
grant.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael J. McCue, M.P.A., J.D.
Contract and Grant Administration
Michigan State University
301 Administration Building
East Lansing, Michigan 48824-1046

Phone: 517-353-1827
Fax: 517-353-9812

-----Original Message-----
From: Landen, Marcia [mailto:xxxxxx@INDIANA.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 11:26 AM
To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] qualifications for research admin

Funny. I've had the exact opposite experience. Every single faculty
member I've talked with about my pursuing the PhD has been extremely
supportive. "If only more people in Administration understood us..."
And, for sure, I'd recommend that every person in administration take a
class, and a class that is seemingly unrelated to research
administration. It opens up your head.

My recent experience is a class in qualitative research methods. You'd
think the scientists I work with would just groan, right? Nope. I've got
some new insights into looking at situations with an eye toward the
culture elements of our work.

And this degree business is, indeed, a cultural element of our
institutions. We are, like it or not, a classist and elitist system, and
unless we want to take a Marxist approach to the world, this isn't
likely to change much.  That doesn't mean I'd require an advanced degree
for a job that doesn't require academic skills or experience, but given
equal qualifications of two candidates, I'd take the one with a degree,
and preferably an advanced degree. For those of us working in colleges
and universities we are, after all, in the business of higher education.

Marcia Landen
Director, Awards Coordination
Sponsored Research Services
Indiana University
107 S. Indiana Ave.
Bryan Hall Room 108
Bloomington, IN 47405-7000


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael J. McCue [mailto:xxxxxx@CGA.MSU.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 9:56 AM
To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] qualifications for research admin

I have a BA, an MPA and a JD. I've found that the number of letters
after my name and the JD carries a lot of weight with faculty. No one in
our office has a Ph.D. and very few advanced degrees. MSU has over $280
million in sponsored research each year. Our director, has a BS but has
been involved in the process for nearly 25 years. Certainly, the
experience lends him a lot of credibility. I've thought about getting a
Ph.D. and several faculty members highly discouraged it because of what
as seen as people getting Ph.Ds to get Ph.Ds and to not really do
anything with them. Several of them directed me to an article that
appeared in the New York Times last year about the glut of Ph.Ds and the
apparent watering-down of the quality of Ph.Ds in recent years.

Anyway, food for thought.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael J. McCue, M.P.A., J.D.
Contract and Grant Administration
Michigan State University
301 Administration Building
East Lansing, Michigan 48824-1046

Phone: 517-353-1827
Fax: 517-353-9812

-----Original Message-----
From: William Campbell [mailto:xxxxxx@UWRF.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 10:34 AM
To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] qualifications for research admin

Maureen, I grant you that are correct from the HR point of view.  But
many faculty are completely ignorant of the HR point of view; indeed,
some insist on maintaining that ignorance, since it demonstrates that
they have not been corrupted by the insidious, standards-lowering
bureaucrats in Old Main.

Before the PhDs on this list bridle, I'm former faculty, so I think I'm
entitled to say that.  And my PhD is in philosophy, a field at least as
far removed from grants/research admin as medieval literature.  (Though
facility in argumentation is a very valuable skill, both in
writing/reviewing grant proposals and in fighting the political battles
on campus.)

I think Spanky is right--some faculty, alas, will simply not regard
non-PhDs as colleagues worthy of their attention; to them, we're clerks.
Holding a PhD is not the only way to gain their respect, but it
certainly works.  So I think it's appropriate to advertise jobs as
directors of grants/research jobs with PhD strongly desired, if not
required.  Is it fair?  Nope.  But little is.

Regards, Bill

Bill Campbell
Director, Grants & Research
University of Wisconsin-River Falls
715/425-3195
xxxxxx@uwrf.edu

>>> xxxxxx@UILLINOIS.EDU 04/09/03 09:00AM >>>
As a Human Resources professional who has earned a Masters in Medieval
Literature, I find I may be uniquely qualified to comment on this issue.
While my academic side says that the post-bachelor degree probably means
a
certain familiarity with the world of academia and its quirks, my HR
side
says that position qualifications ideally should be tied to the actual
work
the incumbant will be doing. So the question I think we should ask is,
"What
job skills does an individual gain through graduate study that cannot be
gained elsewhere?"

~~Maureen

Maureen D. Kofkee, MA, PHR
Resource and Policy Analyst

University of Illinois Office of Human Resources
807 South Wright Street
Champaign, IL, 61820

217.333.2590
217.333.2789 (fax)


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike McCallister [mailto:xxxxxx@UALR.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 4:32 PM
To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] qualifications for research admin


Oh please, go ahead and acknowledge Higher Ed conceit.  if I hadn't
finished my Ph.D., I'd have never had a shot at my true 3P (Peter
Principle Potential).  More and more, I think his is driven not by
researchers but by OUR bosses who want a spiffy stable.  Finally,
someone who has earned an advanced degree has at least a bit more
familiarity with the culture in which we toil.  Crazy enough to get
that degree, crazy enough to work here-- that sort of thing. THEN
they find out we've got the best jobs on campus.

Spanky

>\I disagree.  Aren't most faculty members interested in good service
>above all else?  I think most people, even in an environment that,
>on the surface, seems defined by academic credentials, look at
>intelligence, credibility, and work ethic above all else. What
>difference does a degree make?  My years spent chopping up fish and
>rats didn't help me in "supervising others, assisting faculty to
>develop proposals, including interpreting guidelines, setting up and
>monitoring accounts & expenditures, advising on compliance issues".
>
>Charlie Hathaway
>
>PHD..piled high and deep
>
>At 04:21 PM 4/8/03 -0400, you wrote:
>>rebecca-
>>yes, the degree is absolutely necessary in an academic environment,
and,
even
>>though the position is assistant director, i'd put the minimum at a
master's.
>>furthermore, i'd want to see 8-10 years experience in steadily more
>>responsible
>>research admin positions, with supervisory experience as well as
>>experience in
>>the specific areas for which this person will have responsibilties.
>>susan
>>
>>--
>>Susan B. Burke
>>Information Specialist
>>Office of Research Services
>>The George Washington University
>>2121 I Street NW, Suite 601
>>Washington, DC 20052
>>Telephone: 202-994-9136
>>Facsimile: 202-994-9137
>
>**************************************
>Charles B. Hathaway, Ph.D., Director
>Office of Grant Support
>Albert Einstein College of Medicine
>1300 Morris Park Avenue
>Bronx, NY 10461-1975
>Phone: 718 430-3642     Fax: 718 430-8822
>email: xxxxxx@aecom.yu.edu
>http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ogs
>
>
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>  subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
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--
Mike McCallister, Ph. D.
  Director, Research and Sponsored Programs
University of Arkansas at Little Rock
2801 South University
Little Rock, AR 72204-1099
(v) 501-569-8474
(f) 501-371-7614
(c) 501-590-5609


Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one
can go. - T.S. Eliot


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 subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
 via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists")
======================================================================


======================================================================
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 subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
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 subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
 via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists")
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======================================================================
 Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including
 subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
 via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists")
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 subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
 via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists")
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 subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
 via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists")
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--
Mike McCallister, Ph. D.  
 Director, Research and Sponsored Programs
University of Arkansas at Little Rock
2801 South University
Little Rock, AR 72204-1099
(v) 501-569-8474
(f) 501-371-7614
(c) 501-590-5609   


Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go. — T.S. Eliot

====================================================================== Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists") ======================================================================