Re: Lab coats Surprenant, James M. 15 Apr 2009 15:39 EST

I remember when this mailing list used to fill up my inbox with useful
(more-or-less) res admin posts...

JAMES M. SURPRENANT, MBA
Department of Surgery
BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL
Tel: 617-525-7409 ¨ Fax: 617-525-7723

-----Original Message-----
From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On Behalf Of
Cappellucci, James E.
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:24 PM
To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Lab coats

I feel like F. Gumby. My Brain Hurts!

James Cappellucci
Sr. Grant Administrator, Grants & Contracts
Partners Healthcare/Massachusetts General Hospital
101 Huntington Avenue, 3rd Floor, Suite 300
Boston, MA  02199
Phone 617-954-9858
Fax:    617-954-9850
Main:  617-954-9309
xxxxxx@partners.org

________________________________

From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On Behalf Of
Schoen, Alexander
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:07 PM
To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Lab coats

Dead Parrot Sketch  - "this parrot wouldn't voom if you put 30,000 volts through
it ... this is an ex-parrot!"

-----------------------------------------

Alexander Schoen

Director, Office of Sponsored Programs

Winthrop-University Hospital

222 Station Plaza North, Suite 510

Mineola, NY  11501

Phone: (516) 663-4931

Fax:     (516) 663-9718

xxxxxx@winthrop.org

P Please consider the environment before printing this email

________________________________

From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On Behalf Of
Judith Andersson
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:56 PM
To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Lab coats

I love that part:  "I didn't come here for abuse - I came for an argument!".
"Sorry.  Arguments are next door".

Judith
Duke University

William Decaneas wrote:

 Good Monty Python reference.

 I wonder how many others have seen that skit.  Hysterical.

________________________________

 From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On
Behalf Of Schoen, Alexander
 Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:05 PM
 To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
 Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Lab coats

 please refer this thread to the Ministry of Silly Walks.

 Alex

________________________________

 From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On
Behalf Of Mike McCallister
 Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 2:56 PM
 To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
 Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Lab coats

 Yes and I think sponsors are more sophisticated on this type of thing
than we are.  Sure you can get an auditor who has no idea of ho92w big one
finding is in relation to another-they are all findings, which is fundamentally
silly at times.  What we have to do is NOT get silly in the Palin sense-the
Silly Party.  Next let's talk about lab sox and flip flops.

 Do your best, don't obsess.

 Spanky

 From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On
Behalf Of Richard E. Brandt
 Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 2:25 PM
 To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
 Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Lab coats

 This is where reality and the rules run head-on into each other. And
precisely because few places can accomplish tracking on something so minor.  How
far out do you take this? Is a box of gloves charged as an indirect cost because
someone could take a glove and work on another project; a 100 count box of
pipette tips would need to be counted as used to ensure that they were only used
on one project; would you do a journal entry to transfer the cost of 4 tips to
another project account.

 It easy to determine Reasonable, Allowable, Allocable and Exclusive on
big items, but labs run on small items.

 The other side of this is the need to keep the respect of our
researchers, so that we may successfully enforce the truck load of terms and
conditions necessary to meet the myriad of grantor requirements. This brings us
back to the first of the three conditions... reasonable.

 Richard

________________________________

 From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On
Behalf Of Cappellucci, James E.
 Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 1:39 PM
 To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
 Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Lab coats

 They need to reasonable, allowable and allocable. However, for them to
be charges to a grant, they would have to be either exclusively used for that
grant, which must be able to be proved, or allocated to the grant by way of a
cost driver (i.e. 20% of PIs time spent on grant A means 20% of lab coat cost
can be charged to grant A). Most places do not keep this kind of tracking on
something so minor, so the item would not be able to be charged to a grant as a
direct cost. The cost probably outweighs the benefit, so charge it to the
overhead pool or department fund. So Allowable, yes, but you need to go 3 for 3.
Reasonable and allocable don't seem to fit.

 James Cappellucci
 Sr. Grant Administrator, Grants & Contracts
 Partners Healthcare/Massachusetts General Hospital
 101 Huntington Avenue, 3rd Floor, Suite 300
 Boston, MA  02199
 Phone 617-954-9858
 Fax:    617-954-9850
 Main:  617-954-9309
 xxxxxx@partners.org

________________________________

 From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On
Behalf Of Richard E. Brandt
 Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 1:04 PM
 To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
 Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Lab coats

 I'm going to go the other way on this. Lab coats are a lab safety
supplies, just like gloves and safety glasses. They are a legitimate cost of
doing business.

 A prime example is our animal facilities: you are required to have a lab
coat available there for each researcher expected to enter and process animals,
prior to leaving they are required to remove them and deposit into a laundry
bin, the coats are labeled for the animal project involved and are charged back
to the same project. This helps to avoid compromising expensive animal models,
saving costs and lives

 Coats in a standard research lab would rarely need cleaning unless they
had just protected someone from a project spill, and the cost of cleaning would
be significantly less than replacement (which would be allowed) providing a
benefit to the grantor.

 As always, it depends, and how is the charge "consistently" handled on
other funding sources.

 Richard

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 Richard E. Brandt C.R.A.

 Financial/Research Administrator

 Department of Physiology

 Division of Human Pathology

 Michigan State University

 517 884-5234

________________________________

 From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On
Behalf Of Carolyn Elliott-Farino
 Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:35 PM
 To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
 Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Lab coats

 Wouldn't that fall under indirects? Good grief - they pay you to do
research and then you want them to also pay to clean the lab coats? Can you say
that  x or y lab coat was worn only while the human was working on z or w grant?
I think it would be next to impossible to allocate the expense to one grant.
Presumably research is also done on university time.

 From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On
Behalf Of Matthew Katz
 Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:01 PM
 To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
 Subject: [RESADM-L] Lab coats

 I'm sure this question has been asked before but does the NIH allow for
the cleaning of lab coats to be charged to a grant?? I have a very irate PI who
insists it should be an allowable cost.  I don't see anything under A21 but I
know this has been asked before. Thanks

 Matt

 Matthew D. Katz, MHA

 Assistant Vice President,

 Sponsored Research and Contract Management

 Western University of Health Sciences

 309 E. 2nd Street

 Pomona, CA  91766

 (909) 469-5567

 (909) 469-5569 FAX

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Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription
information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at
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Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription
information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at
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Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including subscription
information and a web-searchable archive, are available via our web site at
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 Instructions on how to use the RESADM-L Mailing List, including
 subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
 via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists")
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