Re: Grants.gov Adobe forms questions Mike L. Varney 29 Jan 2008 09:46 EST

There have been slight changes to the PDF file format through each version.
If an organization has developed custom applications to read PDF files and
process data on them, changes in the PDF file format may glitch the
process.  For example, a program designed with PDF version 6 in mind may
glitch when given a PDF saved in version 8.

Adobe accomodated this by allowing you to Save-As an earlier version in
Acrobat.

One of the biggest changes I'm aware of is the method compression of images
embedded in PDFs changing over the years (leading to later versions of PDFs
being smaller in comparison), and changes int he form engine in Acrobat
that I assume had effects on the data files.

-- M

 "Bloomberg,
 Robert"
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 Sent by: Research                                          cc
 Administration
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 <xxxxxx@hrinet.         Re: [RESADM-L] Grants.gov Adobe
 org>                      forms questions

 01/29/2008 09:41
 AM

 Please respond to
 Research
 Administration
 Discussion List
 <xxxxxx@hrinet.
 org>

Not being a computer expert, I have a question--

Is there a problem with having a version of Adobe other than 8.1.1 on the
computer?
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org]On
 Behalf Of Priscilla Kimboko
 Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:46 PM
 To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
 Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Grants.gov Adobe forms questions

 I'm curious how many other universities have computers dedicated
 solely to grants submission activities?  It seems to me that
 expecting someone to have a computer with no version of Adobe than
 Adobe Reader 8.1.1 is unrealistic.  Our office use Adobe Professional
 6.0 and could easily upgrade to Adobe Professional 8.0, but we do
 need the capacity to edit various PDF documents, create forms, and
 other such actions on the same computer that is used for grants
 submissions...

 Are we the only ones that have multiple uses for Adobe PDF products
 on our computers?

 Priscilla J. Kimboko, Ph.D.
 Dean of Graduate Studies & Grants Administration
 Grand Valley State University
 336 C DeVos
 401 W. Fulton
 Grand Rapids, MI 49504
 616-331-7105 Office
 616-331-7265 Direct line
 616-331-7317 FAX
 xxxxxx@gvsu.edu
 www.gvsu.edu/gsga
 www.gvsu.edu/research_dev
 www.gvsu.edu/ncaselfstudy

 Change makes all things possible.  Lao-Tzu

 >>>

 From:    Bob Beattie <xxxxxx@UMICH.EDU>

 To:      <xxxxxx@hrinet.org>

 Date:    1/24/2008 4:21 PM

 Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Grants.gov Adobe forms
 questions

 In all of my comments I did not refer to the Grants.gov Help Desk;

 but to the Grants.gov Washington staff, and what they publish on
 their website and state in public meetings and webcasts.

 Everything presented refers to ADOBE READER 8.1.1.   Is this not,
 now, sufficient guidance?
 Note that the requirement for using ADOBE READER 8.1.1 and not
 7.0.1
 was released just last Friday
 http://www.grants.gov/aboutgrants/program_status_archive.jsp

 Concerning Steve's excellent points.
 The Federal Demonstration Partnership encourages IT staff to attend

 its meetings.  Each member has a Faculty, a Grants Office
 administrator and an IT "slot."  There is is an eRA Standing
 Committee which arranges meetings for the IT staff, and others, who

 wish to attend.  Only 90 some schools are members of FDP, and not
 all
 send an IT/eRA person.

 Moreover, while there are sessions at Regional and National
 SRA/NCURA
 meeting on eRA topics, many schools do not send anyone.  These
 meetings are expensive. Regional meetings are, however, often
 nearby.  The NCURA Western meeting is in Portland.

 Grants.gov, at least, has a free webcast every quarter.  This
 listserv gives an opportunity for information exchange.  The NCURA

 eRA Neighborhood is another venue for discussion (but I think it
 requires membership in NCURA).  Is there a similar SRA function?

 I would hope that Grants Offices that are lucky enough to have
 their
 own IT staff, do support them and keep them in the "loop."  I find

 that often the problems come when dealing with IT staff at a higher

 level, who have not the time to understand the difficulties of
 modern
 electronic Grants management.

 Bob
 xxxxxx@umich.edu

 On Jan 24, 2008, at 3:29 PM, Dimmitt, Robert J wrote:

 In the email below regarding believing IT staff or believing
 grants.gov
 staff, I have some concern.  When the adobe forms first came out
 and
 then opened up to 8.1.1, I emailed, and called, the grants.gov help
 desk
 to ask the following questions:

 1)  In one instance, I asked if adobe acrobat professional was
 supported
 as well as Reader.  Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of an email
 response because they emailed me back asking for me to call them.
 However, they gave me a case number (which is available if anyone
 needs
 it) saying that, in fact, acrobat professional was able to be used
 and
 was not "advertised" because it was not a free software like reader
 is.
 At the end of my conversation, I specifically verified that if
 someone
 does have a version of acrobat professional 8.1.1 or 7.0.9, then
 they
 would be ok and not need to go through reader.  The answer was YES.

 2)  When 8.1.1 came out, I had another conversation  with the
 grants.gov
 help desk (unfortunately no email trail on this one or a case
 number, so
 you just have to take my word on it).  The conversation focused on
 if a
 package using 8.1.1 could be submitted with a 7.0.9 version and
 vice
 versa.  Again, the response was YES.

 Now,  I want to clarify that we have only submitted a handful of
 adobe
 packages to date and have not had any problems.  However, I am not
 sure
 where to go now or what to do. Our IT staff have put what we have
 asked
 for on our machines and we are in a position to submit proposals
 according to the instructions/guidance we were given.  If, however,
 we
 are being told that that either using acrobat, or a reader version
 other
 than the one it was created in, will cause errors, this is a
 problem.

 If at all possible, can someone please provide some guidance?

 Rob

 ------------------------
 Rob Dimmitt
 Assistant Director, Pre-Award
 Sponsored Program Services
 Purdue University
 302 Wood Street
 West Lafayette, IN 47907-2108
 Phone: (765) 496-9647     Fax: (765) 494-1360

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On
 Behalf Of Shapiro, Steve
 Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 2:38 PM
 To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
 Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Grants.gov Adobe forms questions

 This is a prime reason why IT staff should be involved in the
 day-to-day
 operations of your institution's SRO.

 Providing IT support to an SRO office is a very specialized
 endeavor.
 There are many quirks, special language and abbreviations, and
 specific
 knowledge that an IT professional must have in order to provide the
 staff with accurate information and assistance. When confronted
 with a
 new situation, we need that background in order to know where to go
 to
 find the solution that you need to continue your work.

 Excuse me for a second while I get up on my soapbox:

 IT professionals should get more recognition, sessions and
 information
 at conferences and online education. We form the backbone of
 everything
 you do. The activity of an SRO office would come to a screaming
 halt if
 the computer hardware, infrastructure or application software were
 to
 fail. We can do a much better job supporting you if you acknowledge
 us
 and include us in your plans.

 Institutions should encourage their IT professionals to attend
 National
 and Regional meetings. National and Regional meetings should have
 tracks
 that empower and educate IT professionals to excel in their work
 with
 the SRO.

 We have many capable IT professionals working in SROs around the
 country
 who can be tapped to lead these endeavors, with the goal of
 grooming a
 future generation of SRO IT support professionals. Just as SPAs
 have to
 be grown and groomed, so must the support staff.

 End of Soap box.

 Steve Shapiro
 Technical Group Manager
 University of Oregon

 On 1/22/08, xxxxxx@umich.edu <xxxxxx@umich.edu> wrote:
 > This is what I am telling our campus.
 >
 > "Concerning what you need to process grants, you can believe your
 IT
 > Support staff or you can believe Grants.gov staff.  The
 Grants.gov
 > staff say to use ADOBE READER 8.1.1 to download, open, fill in
 and
 > submit grant applications."
 >
 > In so far as federal grant applications are concerned, I suspect
 most
 > IT Support staff are, in most cases, under-informed.  They are
 well
 > meaning people who think they are doing what is in the best
 interest
 of
 > those whom they support.   I am sorry if I sound harsh here, I
 have
 > been, shall we say, politely, "discussing" this issue with a
 number of

 > well meaning people on our campus.  I would like to think, in
 grants
 > management, our IT colleagues will carry out the necessary
 support
 > role, once the grants people tell them what is needed.
 >
 > This is turning out to be painful for everyone.  I hope General
 > Dynamics had planned for a better outcome than they have gotten
 when
 > they sold Grants.gov on using Adobe, a program over which they
 have no

 > control, and which is much more complicated, for a University,
 than
 > they could have anticipated.
 >
 > Back to IT.  No matter what those folks say, you need to use
 ADOBE
 > READER 8.1.1.  You cannot use Professional and believe, as some
 IT
 > people have told me, it will work "just like Reader."  If you
 believe
 > that, then move your submission deadline back a few days to
 compensate

 > for all the invalid applications.  I know that most IT managers
 must
 > centrally control what goes on peoples' computers. This can be at
 a
 > department or even an institutional level.  I suspect this did
 not go
 > into the General Dynamics calculation for success.  They probably
 > assumed everyone just installed whatever was wanted, whenever it
 was
 > convenient. So cause for more pain.
 >
 > The proverbial "bottom line" is that you should make ADOBE READER
 8.1.1
 > your browser default program to open all .pdf files from the
 internet.

 > You can still use other Adobe programs to make .pdf attachment
 files.
 > The other Adobe programs will still work in conjunction with
 Reader.
 > Be careful, however, when you open up Professional as it will ask
 you
 > to make it your browser default.  Just say no.
 >
 > The newest statement from Grants.gov staff, who are trying to be
 as
 > helpful as possible as they are caught in the middle of all this,
 is
 > that you should not use both Reader 7.0.9 and 8.1.1 on the same
 file
 or
 > you will get even more problems.  Thus I am, as well, asking our
 campus
 > to use only ADOBE READER 8.1.1.
 >
 > I hope this long explanation sheds some light on this as Suzan
 requested.
 >
 > Bob
 > ____________________________
 > Robert Beattie UMich Grants.gov Liaison Managing Project
 > Representative for eRA Division of Research Development and
 > Administration University of Michigan 734 936-1283
 xxxxxx@umich.edu
 >
 >
 >
 > Quoting Suzan G Lund <xxxxxx@UNLNOTES.UNL.EDU>:
 >
 >> Does anyone out there know how having the Adobe Acrobat
 Professional
 >> (version 8.1.1) affects the use of the new forms packages?
 We've
 only had
 >> limited exposure to the forms packages thus far and are not
 clear if
 using
 >> Acrobat Professional, which our office has, creates/solves any
 problems.
 >> We're only hearing about the use of Reader 8.1.1.  Even our IT
 guys
 aren't
 >> sure.  Any light you can shed would be helpful.  Thanks.
 >>
 >> Suzan G. Lund, CRA
 >> Associate Director
 >> Sponsored Programs
 >> University of Nebraska-Lincoln
 >> 312 N. 14th St., Alexander West
 >> Lincoln, NE  68588-0430
 >> Ph:  402-472-1930     Fax:  402-472-9323
 >> email:  xxxxxx@unl.edu
 >>
 >> Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens
 can
 change
 >> the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.  Margaret
 Mead
 >>
 >>
 >>
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