Re: Grants.gov Adobe forms questions Bob Beattie 24 Jan 2008 16:19 EST

In all of my comments I did not refer to the Grants.gov Help Desk;
but to the Grants.gov Washington staff, and what they publish on
their website and state in public meetings and webcasts.

Everything presented refers to ADOBE READER 8.1.1.   Is this not,
now, sufficient guidance?
Note that the requirement for using ADOBE READER 8.1.1 and not 7.0.1
was released just last Friday
http://www.grants.gov/aboutgrants/program_status_archive.jsp

Concerning Steve's excellent points.
The Federal Demonstration Partnership encourages IT staff to attend
its meetings.  Each member has a Faculty, a Grants Office
administrator and an IT "slot."  There is is an eRA Standing
Committee which arranges meetings for the IT staff, and others, who
wish to attend.  Only 90 some schools are members of FDP, and not all
send an IT/eRA person.

Moreover, while there are sessions at Regional and National SRA/NCURA
meeting on eRA topics, many schools do not send anyone.  These
meetings are expensive. Regional meetings are, however, often
nearby.  The NCURA Western meeting is in Portland.

Grants.gov, at least, has a free webcast every quarter.  This
listserv gives an opportunity for information exchange.  The NCURA
eRA Neighborhood is another venue for discussion (but I think it
requires membership in NCURA).  Is there a similar SRA function?

I would hope that Grants Offices that are lucky enough to have their
own IT staff, do support them and keep them in the "loop."  I find
that often the problems come when dealing with IT staff at a higher
level, who have not the time to understand the difficulties of modern
electronic Grants management.

Bob
xxxxxx@umich.edu

On Jan 24, 2008, at 3:29 PM, Dimmitt, Robert J wrote:

In the email below regarding believing IT staff or believing grants.gov
staff, I have some concern.  When the adobe forms first came out and
then opened up to 8.1.1, I emailed, and called, the grants.gov help desk
to ask the following questions:

1)  In one instance, I asked if adobe acrobat professional was supported
as well as Reader.  Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of an email
response because they emailed me back asking for me to call them.
However, they gave me a case number (which is available if anyone needs
it) saying that, in fact, acrobat professional was able to be used and
was not "advertised" because it was not a free software like reader is.
At the end of my conversation, I specifically verified that if someone
does have a version of acrobat professional 8.1.1 or 7.0.9, then they
would be ok and not need to go through reader.  The answer was YES.

2)  When 8.1.1 came out, I had another conversation  with the grants.gov
help desk (unfortunately no email trail on this one or a case number, so
you just have to take my word on it).  The conversation focused on if a
package using 8.1.1 could be submitted with a 7.0.9 version and vice
versa.  Again, the response was YES.

Now,  I want to clarify that we have only submitted a handful of adobe
packages to date and have not had any problems.  However, I am not sure
where to go now or what to do. Our IT staff have put what we have asked
for on our machines and we are in a position to submit proposals
according to the instructions/guidance we were given.  If, however, we
are being told that that either using acrobat, or a reader version other
than the one it was created in, will cause errors, this is a problem.

If at all possible, can someone please provide some guidance?

Rob

------------------------
Rob Dimmitt
Assistant Director, Pre-Award
Sponsored Program Services
Purdue University
302 Wood Street
West Lafayette, IN 47907-2108
Phone: (765) 496-9647     Fax: (765) 494-1360

-----Original Message-----
From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@hrinet.org] On
Behalf Of Shapiro, Steve
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 2:38 PM
To: xxxxxx@hrinet.org
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Grants.gov Adobe forms questions

This is a prime reason why IT staff should be involved in the day-to-day
operations of your institution's SRO.

Providing IT support to an SRO office is a very specialized endeavor.
There are many quirks, special language and abbreviations, and specific
knowledge that an IT professional must have in order to provide the
staff with accurate information and assistance. When confronted with a
new situation, we need that background in order to know where to go to
find the solution that you need to continue your work.

Excuse me for a second while I get up on my soapbox:

IT professionals should get more recognition, sessions and information
at conferences and online education. We form the backbone of everything
you do. The activity of an SRO office would come to a screaming halt if
the computer hardware, infrastructure or application software were to
fail. We can do a much better job supporting you if you acknowledge us
and include us in your plans.

Institutions should encourage their IT professionals to attend National
and Regional meetings. National and Regional meetings should have tracks
that empower and educate IT professionals to excel in their work with
the SRO.

We have many capable IT professionals working in SROs around the country
who can be tapped to lead these endeavors, with the goal of grooming a
future generation of SRO IT support professionals. Just as SPAs have to
be grown and groomed, so must the support staff.

End of Soap box.

Steve Shapiro
Technical Group Manager
University of Oregon

On 1/22/08, xxxxxx@umich.edu <xxxxxx@umich.edu> wrote:
> This is what I am telling our campus.
>
> "Concerning what you need to process grants, you can believe your IT
> Support staff or you can believe Grants.gov staff.  The Grants.gov
> staff say to use ADOBE READER 8.1.1 to download, open, fill in and
> submit grant applications."
>
> In so far as federal grant applications are concerned, I suspect most
> IT Support staff are, in most cases, under-informed.  They are well
> meaning people who think they are doing what is in the best interest
of
> those whom they support.   I am sorry if I sound harsh here, I have
> been, shall we say, politely, "discussing" this issue with a number of

> well meaning people on our campus.  I would like to think, in grants
> management, our IT colleagues will carry out the necessary support
> role, once the grants people tell them what is needed.
>
> This is turning out to be painful for everyone.  I hope General
> Dynamics had planned for a better outcome than they have gotten when
> they sold Grants.gov on using Adobe, a program over which they have no

> control, and which is much more complicated, for a University, than
> they could have anticipated.
>
> Back to IT.  No matter what those folks say, you need to use ADOBE
> READER 8.1.1.  You cannot use Professional and believe, as some IT
> people have told me, it will work "just like Reader."  If you believe
> that, then move your submission deadline back a few days to compensate

> for all the invalid applications.  I know that most IT managers must
> centrally control what goes on peoples' computers. This can be at a
> department or even an institutional level.  I suspect this did not go
> into the General Dynamics calculation for success.  They probably
> assumed everyone just installed whatever was wanted, whenever it was
> convenient. So cause for more pain.
>
> The proverbial "bottom line" is that you should make ADOBE READER
8.1.1
> your browser default program to open all .pdf files from the internet.

> You can still use other Adobe programs to make .pdf attachment files.
> The other Adobe programs will still work in conjunction with Reader.
> Be careful, however, when you open up Professional as it will ask you
> to make it your browser default.  Just say no.
>
> The newest statement from Grants.gov staff, who are trying to be as
> helpful as possible as they are caught in the middle of all this, is
> that you should not use both Reader 7.0.9 and 8.1.1 on the same file
or
> you will get even more problems.  Thus I am, as well, asking our
campus
> to use only ADOBE READER 8.1.1.
>
> I hope this long explanation sheds some light on this as Suzan
requested.
>
> Bob
> ____________________________
> Robert Beattie UMich Grants.gov Liaison Managing Project
> Representative for eRA Division of Research Development and
> Administration University of Michigan 734 936-1283 xxxxxx@umich.edu
>
>
>
> Quoting Suzan G Lund <xxxxxx@UNLNOTES.UNL.EDU>:
>
>> Does anyone out there know how having the Adobe Acrobat Professional
>> (version 8.1.1) affects the use of the new forms packages?  We've
only had
>> limited exposure to the forms packages thus far and are not clear if
using
>> Acrobat Professional, which our office has, creates/solves any
problems.
>> We're only hearing about the use of Reader 8.1.1.  Even our IT guys
aren't
>> sure.  Any light you can shed would be helpful.  Thanks.
>>
>> Suzan G. Lund, CRA
>> Associate Director
>> Sponsored Programs
>> University of Nebraska-Lincoln
>> 312 N. 14th St., Alexander West
>> Lincoln, NE  68588-0430
>> Ph:  402-472-1930     Fax:  402-472-9323
>> email:  xxxxxx@unl.edu
>>
>> Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can
change
>> the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.  Margaret
Mead
>>
>>
>>
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