Re: Roles on research projects Charlie Hathaway 27 Aug 2005 11:37 EST

Yes, I misunderstood.  Your original email spoke of "roles on research
projects" and "duties".  I assumed you were speaking of all duties, including
the non-fiscal.  And Joe's list seemed way too general.

CH

Quoting Terri Hall <xxxxxx@ND.EDU>:

> Whoa, Charlie...guess I need to clarify.
> NOT suggesting we 'outlaw' using "Statistician" or "Data Analyst"
> to describe roles in research projects. These descriptions can be
> immensely helpful in the narrative and budget but are way too
> specific for what I was seeking.  I'm going for overall big-picture roles
> whether stated within proposal or not...so that everyone is clear on
> who can spend and who can't more or less.
>
> I was looking for a list (if there is one) that provided general
> descriptions
> of possible roles...and the list would  be something like this:
> PI - directs project, responsible for overall outcome, main fiscal
> responsibility, from our institution only
> Co-PI - specific duties on project, may have fiscal responsibility if allowed
> by
> PI re:
>      record-keeping, and may have some spending ability, from our
> institution
> only
> Senior/Other Personnel - duties on project, no fiscal responsibility and
> cannot
> spend
>      without permisison of PI (or Co-PI when allowed), can be from other
> institutions or organizations/industry
> Grad student - directed by others on project, some duties, no spending
> ability,
> from our institution only
> Collaborator: develops and spends own budget, works with PI to determine
> duties
> in joint effort, receives own award, can be from other institutions or
> organizations/industry
> Subcontract/Subawardeee: develops statement of work with PI, creates own
> budget
> but is paid by PI institution for work - is part of PI's award - can spend
> only
> amount provided by PI from sponsor, can be from other institutions or
> organizations/industry
> etc.
>
> These descriptions are just off the top of my head and certainly unofficial,
> but
> I hope it clarifies things.
>
> The Statistician or Data Analyst would fall in the Senior/Other Personnel
> category most likely...which could tell everyone he/she has no spending
> ability
> on this project .. and again SHOULD be listed as Statistician, etc on
> proposal.
>
> Does that make more sense?  This stems from a PI request to include someone
> from
> another institution on a proposal, but this 'someone' didn't want to have to
> run
> it through his institution. The question was...if he's not a subaward, what
> role
> can he play to achieve that?  This original question got us thinking then
> about
> the new initiative to list multiple PI's and what that will do to monitoring
> expenditures on the projects.
>
> Thanks to all for previous responses...and I welcome more in this
> discussion.
> Terri
>
> --
> Terri Hall
> Associate Director of Sponsored Programs (eRA)
> Office of Research*University of Notre Dame
> Phn: (574) 631-7378*Fax: (574) 631-6630
> 511 Main Building*Notre Dame, IN*46556
>
>
> Quoting xxxxxx@aecom.yu.edu:
>
> > You know, I come from the research side of the mountain where it is felt
> that
> > competitiveness in seeking extramural funding should be the goal of
> research
> > administration. It is also generally conceded that there are "rules" that
> you
> > have to obey so someone doesn't go to jail.
> >
> > But if some "data dictionary" is going to tell me that on my proposal I
> can't
> > label Dr. X as a "Statistician" or "Data Analyst" or "Translator" (which
> are
> > certainly much more useful and descriptive of roles than are "Grad
> Student"
> > or "Other" ??!!), then I am going to burn that data dictionary.  Cmon, are
> > you
> > really going to sacrifice clarity for strict adherence to some list of
> > titles?
> >
> > CH
> >
> > Quoting Joseph Bass <xxxxxx@jsb-consulting.com>:
> >
> > > These are the project roles that were in the original data dictionary
> > > Consultant
> > > Co-PD/PI
> > > Graduate Student
> > > Key Person
> > > Other
> > > Other Professional
> > > PD/PI
> > > Post Doctoral
> > > Post Doctoral Associate
> > > Technician
> > > Undergraduate Student
> > >
> > > I have attached a old Key Person page
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe Bass
> > > JSB Consulting, LLC
> > > Managing Member
> > > xxxxxx@JSB-Consulting.com
> > >
> > > Phone: 301-774-4229 Mobile: 240-305-8056 Fax: 240-220-0654
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xxxxxx@aecom.yu.edu [mailto:xxxxxx@aecom.yu.edu]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 6:15 PM
> > > To: xxxxxx@jsb-consulting.com
> > > Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Roles on research projects
> > >
> > > I'd be interested.  I just can't imagine tho.  To have some bureaucrat
> > > question whether a technician is doing technician stuff rather than
> > > investigator or
> > > administrative4 assistant stuff seems ridiculous.  And...my comments
> were
> > > based on memories of people creating very unconventional sounding roles
> on
> > > NIH proposals, mostly in social sciences.  But i might be wrong.
> > >
> > > charlie
> > >
> > > Quoting xxxxxx@jsb-consulting.com:
> > >
> > > > I think roles and definitions exist. Maybe not in Grants.Gov but the
> > > > standard has them. I can send it to you if you want
> > > >
> > > > Joe Bass
> > > > xxxxxx@jsb-consulting.com
> > > >
> > > > --- Original Message ---
> > > > From: Charlie Hathaway <xxxxxx@AECOM.YU.EDU>
> > > > Sent: Fri 8/26/2005 3:27 pm
> > > > To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
> > > > Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] Roles on research projects
> > > >
> > > > I don't think there is a list of acceptable roles.  Other than PI, I
> > > > doubt the feds would attempt definitions.  Definitions would limit the
> > > > ability of researchers to do what they think needs to be done.  Who's
> > > > to say there could
> > > >
> > > > never be a "Snake Charmer" or "Massage Therapist" on a grant?
> > > >
> > > > As for Co-PIs (a meaningless term at present)...I'll bet the new
> > > > policy uses
> > > >
> > > > equal lead investigators at different institutions as a proto-typical
> > > > example
> > > >
> > > > of why true Co-PIs are needed.
> > > >
> > > > CH
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Quoting Terri Hall <xxxxxx@ND.EDU>:
> > > >
> > > > > We have had several discussions about the various roles on research
> > > > projects,
> > > > > their definitions, and their responsibilities or spending privileges
> > > > > on
> > > > the
> > > > > projects.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone know if these roles have been defined by the federal
> > > > government
> > > > > for federal projects? Or is this up to the discretion of the sponsor
> > > > > or university as to who can serve as what, and the duties/privileges
> > > > > each
> > > > role
> > > > > will have?
> > > > >
> > > > > For example...if one of our investigators wants to include an
> > > > > investigator from another institution on a proposal...that
> investigator
> > > can serve as a:
> > > > > 1. subcontractor/subawardee
> > > > > 2. collaborator
> > > > > 3. consultant
> > > > > 4. senior personnel/key personnel/other significant contributor 5. ?
> > > > > other options?
> > > > >
> > > > > Secondly, we do not currently allow those from other institutions to
> > > > > serve
> > > > as
> > > > > co-PIs on our projects unless it is a sponsor requirement. But now
> > > > > there's talk of multiple-PI's on projects...yikes!
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyone know of a complete list of research personnel allowed on
> > > > > federal projects? with definitions of roles and who has spending
> > > authority or not?
> > > > >
> > > > > I couldn't find anything in the RESADM-L archives...or NCURA...or
> > > > > SRA regarding this.
> > > > > Some university websites provide definitions..but none references a
> > > > federal
> > > > > source.
> > > > > Are there any?
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Terri
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Terri M. Hall
> > > > > Associate Director of Sponsored Programs (eRA) Office of Research *
> > > > > University of Notre Dame
> > > > > 511 Main Building * Notre Dame, Indiana 46556
> > > > > Phn: (574) 631-7378  Fax: (574) 631-6630
> > > > > http://www.nd.edu/~research/ ~ an FDP institution ~
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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