Re: fixed price subawards under NIH grants? Dudley Sharp 07 Oct 2004 10:33 EST

In federal contracting, this is known as cost-plus-percentage-of-cost
and is illegal. This is the first version where I have heard of it being
used with a maximum or ceiling amount. It generally makes sense to
incentivize a contractor to do the work for less cost
(cost-plus-incentive-fee or fixed-price-incentive pricing arrangements),
but why anyone would want to incentivize a contractor or subcontractor
to spend all the money is a mystery.

Dudley
Dudley Sharp
Contracts Manager
Office for Research and Sponsored Project Administration
Arizona State University
480-965-0273

-----Original Message-----
From: Research Administration List [mailto:xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG] On
Behalf Of Greg and Peg Schmidt
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 7:52 AM
To: xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] fixed price subawards under NIH grants?

Price Plus Percentage Fee.  Sorry about that.  More often called Cost
plus...  It's a reimbursement contract with a percentage fee for profit.
I might have a $100,000 contract which is comprised of $86,957 of costs
and a 15% fee.  If I spend the full 86,957, I'll get my full fee.  If I
spend only $80,000, I'll get 15% of that or $12,000.

Greg

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean M. Murphy" <xxxxxx@WELLESLEY.EDU>
To: <xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [RESADM-L] fixed price subawards under NIH grants?

> Hello All!
>        I found this exchange on fixed price contracts helpful, but was

> left with one question.  Can someone explain or spell out what a PPPF
> contract is?
> Thanks much.
> Jean
>
> Research Administration Discussion List <xxxxxx@HRINET.ORG> writes:
>>Greg makes very strong points that should be valued.  His view of how
>>the for-profit looks at things is quite accurate.  I do wish to point
>>out that my statement in my final paragraph was directed explicitly
>>towards grants, as opposed to contracts.  Greg, on the other hand,
>>describes considerations that are more likely to come about in a
>>contract situation.  There can be considerable differences between the

>>two from a university's point of view when looking at the way to sub-
>>out the work; a subaward under A-110 rules may be quite different from

>>a subcontract under FAR because the purposes and risks of the
>>projects, as proposed, are frequently -- but not always -- different.

>>The views Greg and I presented should both be studied!
>>
>>Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>>At 10:27 AM 10/1/2004, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>Oh, my gosh!  I'm going to disagree somewhat with Dr. Chermside on his

>>closing point.  Could this be professional suicide?
>>
>>It is possible that there are several potential for-profits that are
>>under consideration to team with you.  You do not necessarily know
>>what the final outcome of your proposal will be.  You could not really

>>forsee the scope that will be finally agreed upon between you and the
>>Agency, and by fiat to the sub, so you couldn't really project the
>>type of award to be negotiated.  The Agency really doesn't care what
>>type of arrangement you have with your subs except to the extent that
>>the required flow-through provisions are in the subaward no matter
>>what the form.
>>
>>Now it is true that some branches of agencies look sideways at FPC's
>>for some reason.  They're really no different than a Purchase Order.
>>You provide a good/service, I give you a fixed amount of money for
that.
>>They don't have problems with those, so they really shouldn't have any

>>problems with a FPC.
>>
>>When should a project be a CRC, CPFF, PPPF,  FPC, or any of the other
>>miriad of types of contracts?  The FAR is a good place to look.  It's
>>all about sharing risks.
>>
>>If I have no idea whether the objectives can be met or how much it
>>will really cost, I would issue a CRC (university) or a CPFF
>>(company).  Think basic research.  The project could be over as soon
>>as it begins with min imalcosts. decades costing many billions.  Here
>>the risks lean most heavily on the prime.  The sub will be paid for
their costs.
>>
>>If I'm reasonably sure that the outcomes can be achieved with specific

>>effort, but there are some significant risks involved, I'd lean
>>towards a PPPF where my costs will be coverd and I'll still make my
>>profit on a percentage basis of my costs.  Here the risks are shared
>>equally between prime and sub.  The prime pays for what the sub
>>expends, and the sub gets some or all of their fees.
>>
>>Finally, if you know the outcomes and the efforts involved and can put

>>a price to it with assurance, a FPC is the way to go.  This is like
>>buying a painter's services.  You can shop the job out, get costs to
>>perform and sign a contract.  If the painter can knock off your job in

>>a day and you can accept the quality of work performed, they'll come
>>out ahead.  If it takes them a week, they get the same amount and earn

>>little or lose money.  As the owner, I don't care so long as the
>>quality is there and the other terms of the agreement are met.  Here,
>>the risks are all on the sub.
>>
>>Greg
>
>
> Jean M. Murphy
> Director of Pre-Award Services
> Wellesley Centers for Women
> http://www.wcwonline.org
> E-mail:  xxxxxx@wellesley.edu      Phone:  781-283-2508     Fax:
> 781-283-2504
>
> Wellesley College, Cheever House, 106 Central Street, Wellesley, MA
> 02481
>
>
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 subscription information and a web-searchable archive, are available
 via our web site at http://www.hrinet.org (click on "Listserv Lists")
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